| IVOD_ID |
161020 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161020 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-07T11:54:12+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-07T12:01:35+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:23 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0a74d2e02c378e06dd544463791822ac115e7528c8151ef553e9bbb6110816760236eefe79b9ad105ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃珊珊 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:54:12 - 12:01:35 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心指揮官、內政部警政署署長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「臺灣遭聯合國警示為東亞、東南亞跨國詐欺集團據點之檢討與防範，及打詐四法與相關子法施行後之具體成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【5月5日及7日兩天一次會】） |
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現在請甄部長還有司法院副秘書長副秘 |
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好 部長好 副秘好我想今天是打詐專報去年立法院通過了打詐專法尤其是詐欺危害防治條例那現在執行的狀況剛剛也看到很多委員質詢說的確是有一些成效但是現在碰到我認為比較嚴重的問題它第四十七條規定說犯詐欺犯罪在偵查還有歷次的審判中自白 |
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如果有犯罪所得要自動繳交其犯罪所得的要減輕其刑現在的問題就是立法院跟法務部在去年在這個場域裡面我們大家所探討的就是我們的打詐專法是要加重加嚴對吧 部長是 |
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加重加嚴是你法務部的立場 也是立法院的立場所以在蔡壁飛案條例都有比新法做得比較對 所以這個很清楚我們同意自白加上犯罪所得繳回的解禁期刑錯我們這個是必檢 這個法條就要必檢另外查獲主持的相關的組織的話是必檢或避免 免處期刑這個情況是法務部的立場 也是司法院的立場嗎 |
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116.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
是但是現在最大的問題是司法 法務部 立法院都非常認真地立了這個法加重 加嚴但現在的問題是在法院法官們對於犯罪所得的認定有很大的歧義也就是說他們對於立法者的立法意識不了解或者是他們自行做了解釋所以刑事最高法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
139.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
的刑三庭申請了大法庭解釋這個問題就在於法務部認為我們的犯罪所得是什麼 部長你認為的犯罪所得是什麼是整體詐團的 就是被害人的被害人的受害金額但是法院把它認為是車手得到的報酬 是嗎 副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
142.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
153.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個部分確實法院之間有不同見解所以現在才要大法庭來解釋那我要在這邊問的是這個法案送到立法院來之前在法務部跟司法院沒有討論過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
156.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
185.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
在這個委員會在審查的法案的同時司法院的刑事廳也有人派人在現場做了非常非常明確的詢答而且他也清楚的知道立法意向為什麼到司法院之後完全沒有任何的沒有任何的共識甚至在每個法庭的法官有不同的見解這才是我今天要問的部長你們之前有跟司法院溝通過犯罪所得的標準跟你們的立場立法的意旨還有立法院的意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
212.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
立法說明是有寫立法說明有寫司法院刑事廳不知道還是他知道然後沒有辦法做出同意解釋還是讓法官自己解釋現在問題就是法務部立法院加重加嚴我們的法院拼命在減輕然後還要大法庭解釋這不是很奇怪嗎副秘書長你們司法院沒有參與他們的修法過程和立法議職嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
213.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
241.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
是有匯錢有匯錢那為什麼會出現這種狀況現在相關的法院大部分的法官認為說車手只拿了幾千塊要他賠幾十萬很不很平這我也可以理解但是我還是回到原點原來我們的立法一直到底是什麼第二個現在這樣的起義造成了非常多民眾的觀感我們在打詐打假的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
242.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
256.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
一樣啦 詐欺犯這麼輕 只要說我沒拿到錢只要自白 只要說我還沒有拿到報酬就減輕欸 甚至就放人欸部長 你們的立法意志 司法院不知道是嗎你們之前有溝通嗎部長 你要不要回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
288.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個在行政院審查會的時候司法院就派人我今天的問題是好5月14號大法庭要做解釋的現在看起來大部分的法院法庭的幾個庭最高法院三個九個庭只有一個庭支持法務部啦另外八個庭都不支持你啦接下去你要怎麼辦解釋出來如果犯罪所的是大法庭解釋說是車手個人的報酬 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
307.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
法務部要不要帶來修法還是我們要幫你修法還是你的立場要不要講清楚啊如果說大法庭解釋是不是採被害人的被害金而說的話那就是違反你的立法意志啊當然我們就是要啟動修法不是要啟動修法你現在就準備好5月10號你的法案就進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
308.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
327.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
立法委員都支持你們結果我們自己一個國家的體制完全互相不聯絡然後法官我相信他也是在找一個平衡點所以你們在修法的時候司法院就應該表達你們的立場你們希望的平衡點在哪裡法務部不能我們這邊做壞人你們這邊做好人啊副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
328.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
353.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
如果修法你們要不要參與呢還是你們的意見是什麼如果法庭都是這樣的意見那就拿出來你們的版本說台灣的中華民國的最高法院不希望加重加嚴而不是我們修法修了半天法官拼命在放人你可以理解我的意思嗎所以在修法是必然是嗎 部長要看判決的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
354.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
377.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好 如果他的判決結果不符原來的立法意旨你多久之內要送法案來立法院全體幾乎不分黨派全部支持打詐專法結果搞到今天這個樣子剛剛講的什麼打詐的已經都騙人了啦抓到人判不了刑然後最後他自己隨便說說交個三千塊五千塊他就沒事了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
378.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
398.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你要這些年輕人繼續投入詐騙集團嗎繼續被詐騙集團所用嗎因為發現沒事所以大家繼續來打詐是越打越詐兩位我希望在5月14號的判決以後不管怎麼樣的結果如果不符合原來法務部送到立法院的立法意旨請你在一個月之內提案修法可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
400.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
429.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
還是我們來努力好 司法院我覺得也是一樣如果你們都派人來立法院聽了 詢答了看到立法委員每一個義憤填膺的要怎麼修不可以到法庭上是另外一種結果扶民署長 這是你們的責任要把相關的立法一直很普遍的讓所有的法官都能夠明瞭否則法律各自解釋那我們不用在這邊浪費時間我們修完了你們解釋我們修完了你們解釋 最後什麼修法沒有用 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
430.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
442.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
就廢物啊就立了一些廢法好嗎部長這是你的承諾如果5月14號的結果我一個月等你的相關的法案我覺得要給立法委員一個交代是謝謝委員 |