| IVOD_ID |
160991 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160991 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-07T10:15:33+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-07T10:33:29+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:17:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0a74d2e02c378e066e69033ffa170463115e7528c8151ef55b504e8793ebcb11816541f3e3d245755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王鴻薇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:15:33 - 10:33:29 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心指揮官、內政部警政署署長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「臺灣遭聯合國警示為東亞、東南亞跨國詐欺集團據點之檢討與防範，及打詐四法與相關子法施行後之具體成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【5月5日及7日兩天一次會】） |
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現在我們請王宏慧委員發言謝謝主席一樣先請我們法務部部長還有調查局局長麻煩局長 |
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好 那個局長 剛才我聽了那個吳宗憲 趙偉的質詢 你的那個回答我覺得你這個應該是未來 升官發財都指日可待 非常非常的那個 |
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可以看這個上級的臉色來辦事我們在談到很多案件裡面都在講說都是個案不去講但是呢你剛才也提到竟然在整個的偵辦過程裡面就可以講到說有人在教室裡面集體作弊所以 |
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局長,你未來關運,祝你關運亨通啦但是局長我想請問一下,剛才在講,就是有關於這個獎勵辦法是112年開始實施那請問一下112年有沒有在這個連署裡面出現死人連署跟偽造連署 |
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113.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
各位委員報告我們這112年定的這個績效要點主要是為了要因應113年的二合一選舉那但是我們在要點裡面有特別提到就是說因為本次而這個選舉當選的當選人他的這個將來的罷免程序以及當選人因為罷免而必須要辦理補選他的績效考核也適用本要的規定好 我要講現在看有好多種 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
124.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好多種的這個標準不同剛才說過去都沒有告發嗎怎麼會沒有告發呢我剛才為什麼特別講112年以後在113年11月29號 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
131.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
154.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
中選會就告發了有關於謝國良市長的罷免案的相關的偽造連署跟死亡連署他的罷免時間是113年的11月29號所以如果按照你可以適用你這個相關的獎勵辦法我就不懂謝國良當時他的罷免案有辦嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
156.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
180.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
也有沒有告發呢?有告發呀那另外過去數次的不管是公投案或者是罷免案中選會有沒有告發呢?你剛才說都沒有人告發中選會也是有告發的喔在包含罷免韓國瑜、王浩宇、陳柏惟、黃捷、高敏玲、陳志忠 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
181.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
194.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
林長佐等等 中選會通通有告發 請問有辦嗎奇怪了 中選會告發 你們當它 中選會是SOGA喔中選會的告發你們有辦嗎 沒有辦啊至於你112年可以適用的 我剛剛講那幾個確實在112年之前 你沒有辦 當然沒有適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
219.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
謝國良113年年底告發你有辦嗎 沒有辦你有適用嗎 你也沒有適用所以你現在講的所謂的標準根本都是因人設事都是因人設事 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
221.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
231.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
都沒有給你 那是檢察官怠惰囉那檢察官他可以自己查 他本來就是偵查主體啊那為什麼不查 那為什麼不查那你為什麼不去追究啊 中選會告發 中選會還是行政單位為什麼檢察官可以不查不需要查 沒有交辦嘛沒有交辦就不必查嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
243.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
256.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
沒有交辦就不必查嘛有交辦才需要查嘛而且要大規模查嘛唯一的標準就是如此啊你剛才在講的你所有的不管相關的規定也好有沒有告發也好現在看起來全部都是雙標還不只雙標好幾個標準唯一的標準就是上面有沒有交辦而已嘛沒有所以你還在這邊可以硬拗嗎沒有 這我不用拗我很清楚你當然在硬拗好 再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
295.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
剛才都說是個案可是有很多的個案連結起來它是不是就是通案其實大家都知道在民主國家裡面你要去搜索在野政黨本來就是一個大事情好 當然你們這次以所謂的偽造文書就是以連署造假來做你們調查偵查的這個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
308.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
但是我上次在這邊我也講過在你們搜索台北市黨部的時候你針對的是罷免吳思瑤跟罷免吳佩奕的連署的造假 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
309.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
317.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
台北市黨部是不是 這個是個案的內容這還不個案 你又在裝傻囉你不要裝傻囉 是不是在裝傻來來 不知道也可以回答 我已經講過了在台北市 你偵辦的是兩個立法委員的造假連署所以他針對的區是非常非常明確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
335.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
351.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
但是我上次就講結果你帶走的是什麼呢你帶走的是中山區的黨員名冊我上次就講中山區的黨員如何能連署到吳佩奕委員跟吳思瑤委員呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
351.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
366.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好剛才吳宗憲委員也特別提到在台中你們把支持者的名冊也帶走請問一下支持者的名冊你為什麼要帶走呢所以你今天是要查 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
367.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
385.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
國民黨的金主們嗎 是不是你為什麼要把支持者的名冊帶走所以現在檢調你們辦案已經辦到無限上綱你們本來是辦聯署造假結果把支持者的名冊帶走把戰情分析帶走現在是怎樣你們是連選舉人家的戰情分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
393.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
417.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
也 也違法了嗎請問一下 一個市黨部裡面 任何的黨部裡面有戰情分析 這是什麼樣的違法的文件來 回答我 這就通案了啦 這已經是通案 不是個案請問一下 在黨部裡面 如果有戰情分析它是什麼樣的違法文件可以扣押 可以帶走 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
420.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
436.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
答不出來嗎這還是個案的一個認定這是個案這當然是通案所以我要講的如果把黨部的金主的名冊帶走把戰情的分析帶走 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
437.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
453.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這叫做個案個案你們不會去查唷這根本都違法了嘛這是已經違法濫權了好 再來剛剛講宜蘭宜蘭把中選會的公文帶走把中選會的公文帶走 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
454.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
474.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
然後一開始還否認最後說不小心帶走請問一下這還可以視為個案是之嗎所以我說從台北市黨部到台中市黨部到宜蘭縣黨部你們把不應該帶走的東西而且不可以帶走的東西通通帶走 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
477.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
482.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
請問檢察官或者調查區可以如此濫權嗎這個不是濫權這不叫濫權來來部長講這怎麼叫做不叫不是濫權一日一令狀態執行的一個扣押當然如果釐清之後如果說認為沒有留存的必要當然就發還了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
492.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
500.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那他為什麼要釐清暫情分析我請問一下這個釐清就可以什麼樣你們都可以帶走裡面所有無關你案情的請問一下你可以把金主名冊帶走嗎你是要去查人家水表嗎你是要去查這些金主的水表嗎可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
518.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
523.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
然後另外你說有沒有兩套標準說都有辦啊請問一下你們有去抄任何民進黨的黨部民進黨的地方黨部嗎有嗎所以怎麼樣你還可以不發還給人家是不是所以你帶走還帶得很你覺得很理所當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
543.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
549.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這完全的就是濫權啊怎麼可以追殺一個政黨追殺到這種地步你巧立一個名目來辦案然後把其他所有不相關的通通帶走這法院合法的搜索票去執行的時間暫停我請那個司法院司法院覆密 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
574.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
597.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那廳長也上來好了來法部說這次只要你們發了搜索票所以他可以為所欲為 扣所欲口 扣愛帶走什麼就帶走什麼是這樣嗎 副秘書長跟案情無關的他都說可以帶走嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
599.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
625.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
搜索票它是那个令状主义所以说有关于那个搜索的那个对象跟那个标的物在搜索票上面都有记载好那请问一下以这个联署的话那么它应该是跟联署伪造联署相关的嘛对不对你们难道是说只要比如说你今天搜索台北市党部台北市党部所有的一草一木你都可以带走是这样吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
626.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
648.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我想請問一下 當你法院發搜索票的時候跟案情無關的相關的文件是不是也可以隨便的帶走隨便的扣押我剛剛講了 這個很多都跟案情無關啊一點關係都沒有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
651.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
666.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那我剛才所說的這些狀況那麼我們檢調單位在去扣押這些相關的證物的時候有沒有已經逾越了其實法官開搜索票的範圍我剛才說啦你今天罷免連署是這個選區但是呢他去把其他的選區的名冊一併帶走 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
679.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
704.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
或者是 他是以罷免 這是連署的案子但是他有相關的戰情分析他的戰情分析絕對不是罷免的分析嘛 因為還沒有成立嘛可能是過去的戰情分析可以 按照我剛才講的實際的具體案例有沒有逾越了法院所開立搜索票的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
705.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
719.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
報告委員就是在那個個案執行的時候就是依那個實際上那個狀況在那個搜索票上面他的這個搜索標的他不會到特定非常特定的一個文件所以副秘書長我們以我們以保障人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
723.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
746.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
因為即便被調查者 被調查的 我們本來講就是還沒有那個還未經判決嘛 對不對 我們都是無罪推定嘛 是我們是無罪推定 是那麼可以這樣的 由第一線的檢調人員做這樣的一個他完全由他意志 他決定帶走什麼就帶走什麼嗎你覺得這樣的搜索 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
747.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
771.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
在台灣說尊重司法人權要落實司法人權這樣子是合理的嗎合理嗎我剛才講的都是實際案例喔合理嗎因為如果說是非本案的扣押的話他後面還是有救濟程序還是可以經由那個司法再做一次那個審查可是他已經帶走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
772.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
782.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好 所以妳也不敢講說這是合理的嘛 對不對所以我要講的就是說在這一波的這個整個搜索的裡面我們看到不同的地檢署講白話就是殺紅了癮 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
787.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
810.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
而法務部或者調查局完全沒有做任何的節制即便在立法院裡面我們已經提出有這些的疑慮但是他們顯然覺得沒有什麼關係其實你今天對一個在野黨如此你對一般的深斗小民何嘗不是如此呢你只要進去拿了一個搜索票搜索票是萬能的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
811.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
836.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
搜索票是萬能的嗎你想要扣什麼證物你就扣什麼證物嗎無關的你也可以這樣子去扣嗎如果是這樣的話台灣沒有司法人權可言欸不是如此嗎另外我也請教副秘書長在昨天在昨天當然你們一定會講個案但是我要請教的是就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
840.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
859.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
你們在昨天就是台北市黨部的主委黃禮菊她抗告失敗那當然這是個案但是在你們的新聞稿裡面也就是呢駁回她抗告其中有一部分引起了非常多的討論裡面就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
864.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
889.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個黃麗菊奴涉嫌刑法然後有一個重點我紅色框起來且被告與本案其餘共犯間關於政治立場及本案犯行部分均有利害關係所以大家的質疑就是說今天你要不要羈押他難道政治立場也是一個考量的重點嗎按照你們的新聞稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
894.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
913.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
抗告駁回的理由其中是他們之間的政治立場所以也就是說不管是檢察官也好或法官也好他決定要不要羈押他的時候他要先了解這個當事人的政治立場跟其他被告的政治立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
914.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
942.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
他都要先了解 而且如果覺得你們相似的話一樣的話 也作為羈押的理由是不是如此那個包委員齁 這個確實是那個個案齁那但是就是依他這個文字上面那個解讀他這個並不是因為 當事人並不是因為那個政治立場所以說那個受到那個羈押與否的一個決定我想這個文字脈絡上並沒有這樣子的一個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
942.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
959.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那你都放在新聞稿了我相信這個判決書一定更露露腸啊你知道這個新聞稿是要擷取其中之精華呀然後今天提到他的政治立場這是怎麼樣 制正這次辦案有政治立場的考量嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
962.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
990.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這是法官也自證我在決定他要不要駁回他抗告的時候我考量當事人的政治立場嗎那個報告委員那個法官就是不管是一憲法或者是那個依法官法呢就是說他絕對是一個獨立審判是要超出那個政治那個政黨屬性還有那個政治立場的其實我知道在這邊也得不到你們的這個回話因為我想你們也覺得這個到底你要怎麼回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
991.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1013.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我只是覺得齁你們不管檢調或者是法院可以不演到這種程度嗎連政治立場都可以放到這個抗告的新聞稿裡面大拉拉的向上表忠是不是以我來看的話這是要向上表忠的一個新聞稿啊因為我知道黃磊 景儒的政治立場太扯了司法真的應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1021.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1043.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
皇后的徵抄但是你們現在操作司法現在變成皇帝的徵抄了有徵抄可言嗎在這一連串的事件裡面你們的操作非常粗暴而且呢完全的雙標而且如果你們覺得不以為意 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1044.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1063.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
即便是下面的人這樣子基層的這樣子的搞法你們還覺得是可以去護航的那麼台灣的司法人權真的真的在這次案子裡面真的完全被踐踏了我覺得大家都難得可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1064.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1074.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
在高官上做一些事情但是如果今天做的是把司法人群讓大家看不起其實我覺得這是很悲哀的事情好不好謝謝 |