| IVOD_ID |
160980 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160980 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-07T09:27:19+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-07T09:42:15+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0a74d2e02c378e06b8e83cdf0dc72985115e7528c8151ef5c49de4876f6fadf406c20c6f6eca227a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王義川 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:27:19 - 09:42:15 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心指揮官、內政部警政署署長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「臺灣遭聯合國警示為東亞、東南亞跨國詐欺集團據點之檢討與防範，及打詐四法與相關子法施行後之具體成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【5月5日及7日兩天一次會】） |
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主席我們請這個打造中心的指揮官跟警政署署長麻煩署長還有打造中心指揮官好請問一下這個打造中心具體的工作內容是什麼跟委員報告因為我們是行政院的幕僚協調單位 |
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所以我們最主要的工作是各部會有關打仗相關的工作那如果有跨部會的協調的一個需要的話我們會配合行政院的政委然後來跟各部會協調而且管控我們在打仗綱領2.0裡面所有的工作指標好你們在報告裡頭寫到說第三方支付業者電商跟線上遊戲業者啊必須善盡善良管理人的責任對不對 |
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這部分的成效怎麼樣?我們現在在這個部分的話是分別有各部門各部會我知道,但是你是一個平台嘛是那成效怎麼樣?目前我們在打電商的部分我們現在打炸的成果就它已經在下降 |
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然後有關於剛剛提到第三方支付的部分我們現在還有一些灰色地帶還要處理尤其是在這個我們現在有平台就是所謂的網購平台上面利用第三方支付詐騙的那這個部分我們現在在跟第三方支付的主管機關那他們有善盡善良管理人責任嗎跟委包那個可能要看個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
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要看個案不是啊 你當一個指揮官嘛你整體評價嘛這業者有沒有善盡責任嘛如果沒有善盡責任我們在法規上要怎麼處理在行政上要怎麼處理嘛報委現在依法他一定要善盡責任 |
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對啊我知道你報告也寫叫他上進責任啊但是你是指揮官啊你終於可以給現在的狀況給個評價啊說他們還沒有上進啊還沒有做好啊不然那個錢為什麼會一直被騙出去騙出去就叫他上進了然後呢他說我有上進啊可是錢還一直出去一直騙出去我們這指揮官總要有一個態度啊說你這樣做不夠啦 |
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跟委員報告我們如果有發現任何的業者他在善盡責任這塊不足的時候我們一定會要求主管機關去處理這句話很好你們要求了多少次跟委員報告我們每個月我們都會每兩個月我們都會有跨部會的協調會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
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那還有跟地方政府的協調會議所以在每一次的協調會議裡面我們都會列管只要是跟部會執行這些打詐私法有關的我們都會要求那請問第三番之務電商跟線上遊戲業者這一個最沒有善盡善良管理人責任的業者是公開資訊嗎 |
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你們可以提醒國人說 你用一個第三方智庫扶陷叫他們善盡責任 他們都沒有用一個線上遊戲扶陷 真的被騙了這個是公開資訊嗎跟委員報告 這個部分如果說主管機關有裁罰的話就是公開資訊所以要等主管機關那有匯整到你們這裡來嗎目前我們還沒有收到 我們有請主管機關要裁罰這什麼時候開始做的這是打仗司法 通過之後我們會要求那你們會公開嗎 |
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你們會統計嗎我們會我們會好 那你們內部會議的時候會呈現嗎我們會 對那內部會議呈現會是公開資訊嗎目前內部會議的資訊我們沒有辦法公開好 那我剛剛提到說會診完到內部會議嘛 對不對你們這個打造這個中心相關的會議各部會有來的這個會議嘛那這些資訊我可以看得到哪一個第三方置業者從那裡轉走最多錢嗎不要講我啦 國人啦國人可以看得到嗎 |
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因為跟委報第三方支付業者他轉走錢的前端他還有受詐的那個過程就是詐騙集團本身是利用第三方支付業者對 那我可不可以知道哪一個第三方支付業者透過那個出去最多這會不會是公開資訊啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
266.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
284.078 |
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跟委員報告這個部分我們可以跟金管會來研商你們研商一下因為既然你們開會也不是秘密你們也不是秘密會議與會的人也應該蠻多的大家都看過那看過口耳相傳透過那個最危險以後大家不要再用那一種支付了 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
284.398 |
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296.504 |
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那不可以怕你們知道啊 不可以怕你們開胃的知道我們不去開胃的我們都不知道啊那到底可以公開到什麼地步 再請你們去研究一下好 謝謝委員第二個啊 我請問一下這個警政署這個警示帳戶啊 就是說有人去用詐騙啊早去派出所 早去分局報案嘛去報案之後就報案去跟偵查隊嘛 一般都跟偵查隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
311.845 |
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325.357 |
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請問署長你知不知道現在各分局偵查隊今天在辦詐騙的這個員警啊 批御本命你知道嗎知道 確實是非常嚴重非常嚴重嘛齁 所以很多人都不可以去偵查隊嘛 對不對沒有錯也不可以去白鴨嘛 也不可以去偵查隊因為那個公文往返啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
331.242 |
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確實是目前的狀況對不對 調這個資料 調那個資料有時候都跨出警政署 都要調來調去都沒辦法結案嘛 一個案子都要補很久的民眾也沒辦法諒解 說你警察一個創下位 把你報案背了久 都查不到這個怎麼解決 |
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348.971 |
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365.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
包委員現在對於政黨隊這個警力我們有在做這一個研議補充的這個措施包括如果說有缺有不足的會用替代的這個警力會先補不足未來在訓練的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
366.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
388.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
啊或者是留住人才的部分會再提高他的業務的工作的簡化或者是這一些提高他的這個行事家庭現在正在營利當中那我們在上次的一個在這邊的一個內委會的時候也有委員做這樣的執行我們在三個月裡面會來研議這個整個的一個一個促進行事的這個區塊加速來做解決這個問題偵查隊同仁喔 給我歡迎啦 說好啊這樣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
394.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
401.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那你們提到2月4號你們現在已經有一些電子化了的一個平台我們直接給它動來以前是紙本現在用電子化就減少這個就是這個公文往返的效率我現在另外一個課題是這樣這個我最近啊在做選民服務的時候啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
422.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
433.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
一堆民眾 他就描述 他說有一間投資公司啦這投資公司一開始賺20萬 又拿著錢 又賺50萬 又拿著錢他如果說30秒後 整群都說你當了詐騙民眾都知道 你當了詐騙 可是那個人堅持他說我沒有詐騙 我沒有被詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
446.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
467.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
啊我現在人家跟我說我如果再繼續投入那個錢就可以拿回來了然後全部人阻止他喔那是一個選民服務的場合喔好我現在講的是這個那你到了金融機構以後金融機構我們現在我們現在的客人去嫁郵局啦譬如說我現在幾十萬人去嫁郵局郵局很不便宜嘛就說你錢哪裡來的你怎麼有這個錢啊你怎麼這麼多錢啊問這些問題問題是為什麼有民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
476.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他領了十萬 又再領了二十萬 又再領了五十萬總共被騙了一兩百萬結果我們的金融機構 也是陸陸續續被抓了這警政署你們有辦法做什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
506.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
510.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們的行員我知道 他們的功課都有我現在的事也是這樣做的我知道 因為我去嫁錢 我如果去嫁錢他也會吃垃圾啦 這我都知道現在連開戶也很垃圾的 他說奇怪 你也沒有住一家 你也沒有一家吃頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
526.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
529.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
啊你如果早來我們這裡開口,就要問這些問題市長,這都善意了啦好,對,我知道,這個大家都理解,因為走去回到那些詐騙可是我的意思是說,為什麼有那個民眾啊他領了,可能一個年十萬,年二十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
544.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
555.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那這個行員可能就提醒他說你這個領了領了可是這個行員看不到他在別的金融機構的記錄嘛對不對他可能這個領十五萬 那個領十萬 那個領十萬他陸陸續續去領差不多一兩百萬出來系統也不會警示啊 現在要怎麼改觀委員現在系統會警示啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
564.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
591.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
現在金管會現在就是對於這些金融機構對於這些警示帳戶有可疑的或透過我們的這個通報的就是有警示的帳戶他就知道說這個虎頭是有可能是做人就是詐騙的這個帳戶有人回錢進來不是 他捏錢出去不是回錢進來捏錢出去 領錢出去可能就是他會看他的這個領出去的這個動機到底是怎麼樣不是 我現在說我在A銀行領了15萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
594.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
601.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
過了一個禮拜我在B銀行領了20萬再過三天我在C銀行領了10萬系統會不會警示 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
603.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
608.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個部分恐怕就 如果說不是警示賬戶的話就不會解釋警示賬戶叫什麼被騙的人啦 投資詐騙嘛被騙的人要10萬 20萬 可能分成 可能去這間銀行有時那間銀行說你訂在百貨公司要20萬你這個不能再唸喔 你這個復營派出所的人說你不能再唸 他就回去了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
624.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
645.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
他跑去北京這幾個名詞 這種投資詐騙一個名詞叫做潛在的被害人他被騙的時間大概長達兩個月或甚至半年以上我們去跟他勸了之後他也認為我們是阻止他投資的對就撐不起來嘛這個區塊我們現在有兩個層次就是我們發現這個就是這潛在被害人我們拍照第一時間就去跟他說你這是詐騙的因為他不想聽的時候我們就把他趕走 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
652.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
671.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
因為量有時候是多 就是員警先 第一時間先去去勸不行的時候幹部再去勸 再來配合他的家屬去勸不然他就回去了嘛 你這間不可以這樣我就去北京借定存 我定存出來之後我也是去投資 再20萬 再投資下去所以到最後那會是一個累積一個數字啦那這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
673.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
687.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
應該有打造中心指揮官在這,這研究一下,因為這種案子現在算蠻多的我覺得這個部分就是有,因為這個部份主要是金融事故,這個各銀行的這個整個連線那些東西我們要提打造中心來研究啦,來研究看這個可以連線嗎因為聽起來很可憐的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
693.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
706.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
阿他喔 我跟他說 我跟他說他在說的時候 全場的人都知道他是欺凌詐騙喔他還問我說 委員你怎麼幫我請律師 要請到一個律師我說你律師他還開下去 你又再一條就是他不知道啊 他自己簽不起來啊所以我說喔 你們現在選團做得不錯所以全場的民眾都知道他講的是欺凌詐騙啊可是怕那個人不知道阿我覺得這種現在的狀況啊 搞不好還是很嚴重然後到最後就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
722.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
729.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
成立自救會啦 到最後也拿不回什麼錢啦我跟委員報告 我把委員今天這個執行議題非常好我們把這個潛在備案拿到行政院去做專報我們在這個議題有請行政院做專報要來做怎麼樣各部會來做一起來共同解決好 最後一個課題 主席再給我三分鐘就是說我們現在有加一個人要去參加什麼員工旅遊 去泰國 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
750.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
759.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
阿瑪對朋友的公司去泰國的公寓喔,到這裡幾公里再去不是泰國的地方嘛,跑去的什麼園區裡面就對了我們在機場啊,在台灣的機場,有沒有成功攔下多少人?說你不用去,這團是詐騙的,有沒有能夠攔下來?委員,整團是沒有的,但是個別攔了很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
774.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
795.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
各培就是從今年的元月到四月我們基金我們透過選投透過他要去買票到比較高風險的國家我不要講對的國家高風險的國家 東南亞這些國家我們南道的大概目前有幾個南道八九個都各培的但是整團的沒有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
797.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
815.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
沒有那個整團啊整團目前為止是沒有遇到整團事實上去到東南寮有一些比較這些那個詐團的這個地方平常講他們要去的只是自己本身都知道他出去是要去做詐騙的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
818.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
828.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
本身就知道他就是要去做詐騙的方法大部分所以說像這種零星個案的這一種是會有但是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
829.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
836.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
目前為止沒有發現整團,整團都爆起了我聽過一種是這樣,就是說他現在這間公司在辦員工旅遊嘛這個員工他就借他們朋友啊朋友就帶他們公司去員工旅遊,也就是什麼普及島,幾天幾夜的那些都寫得很好聽,去到後面就坐遊覽車嘛我們出國去,我們怎麼知道遊覽車在哪一國,我們搞不清楚啊就坐坐坐,就坐到哪裡去 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
856.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
868.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那些人是對他們的朋友去員工旅遊 家庭也跟他們說要對他們的朋友出國去旅遊我沒有接受整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
883.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
883.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們會努力來繼續做 |