| IVOD_ID |
160948 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160948 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-05T10:37:53+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-05T10:49:48+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:55 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38e90b73e994f9b70e003e6be96867a97d3e2c5f8a9bba8e0c8bc14232be7724f6fa5687ff727cf65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
沈發惠 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:37:53 - 10:49:48 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請總統府秘書長、國家安全會議秘書長、國家安全局、外交部、大陸委員會，並再次邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「近期連環爆發總統府、國家安全會議、外交部遭共諜滲透及忠誠安全查核不足，導致國家機敏資訊外洩，提出檢討報告及相關防制措施之預算執行情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【5月5日及7日兩天一次會】） |
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主席各位同仁這個我想我們今天我看今天我們等於是第二次連續我們召委連續安排第二次的這個有關於這個總統府國安會外交部這個共諜滲透導致國家機敏資訊外洩提出檢討報告相關措施的這樣子的會議這個部分 |
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想必是我們的召委認為這個主題非常重要所以他前一次的禮拜五也排,然後這一次禮拜五也有排但是我今天非常罕見當然啦,在整個過程裡面我們知道我們立法院在委員會的審查大家其實都有一個共識,就是我們盡量 |
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61.547 |
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避免就個案尤其是司法偵查中的個案的細節具體細節去做討論我們可能會針對個案的社會現象或個案的制度去討論包括我們今天主席所列的這樣子的主題他也是針對這些個案的制度制度面去討論這個方向這我想這是大家的共識但是我們剛才看整個國民黨的立委藍白立委他們的質詢過程 |
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90.97 |
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大概很多都是針對這個個案包括現在司法徵詢的這個內容這個司法偵辦的這個個案的內容來進行這個個案式的把這裡當作一個私設的刑堂做個案式的這個討論我個人是認為非常不以為然尤其是我們召委 |
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118.902 |
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141.804 |
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我這個過去我對我們召委也是算是尊重他也是老朋友那我就特別我想召委連續排了兩次一定認為都這個主題非常重要那結果剛才召委自己上來質詢的時間我從頭就要看看就想聽一下我們召委的高見這從司法界出來他針對這個國家安全國安會議對這個外交部 |
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144.776 |
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這些國家機密資料外洩的這些相關防護措施到底有什麼樣的看法結果所有的時間都在討論這個聯署國民黨黨部聯署罷免這個的這個違照文書這個還有個人資料法的這個這個犯罪偵查案件的個案 |
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171.562 |
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還不是個案內容還針對這個辦案過程中的一個強制執行手段裡面的一個公文這樣來質詢其實我在立法院這麼多年我很少看到 |
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184.397 |
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很多立委這樣子,很多立委今天不管主題是什麼反正我今天看到法務部長來,我就要問法務部其他的事情我今天看到調查局來,我就問調查局其他的事情我看到司法院來就問司法院,財政部來就問今天報紙上面財政部的事情來講不管這個召委列什麼樣的主題,我就講我的但是我很少看到自己做召委自己排一個主題結果上來不講這個主題的還排兩次 |
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這個我個人是認為說對於司法個案偵查中的案件的尊重我個人是抱非常大的遺憾我常常講說人必自重而人重之人必自武而人武之 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
235.816 |
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264.407 |
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我們今天如果說真的召委認為說這樣子的案件非常重要那在討論過程中大家就是應該針對制度我剛剛聽很多委員都在都談都跟這個主題制度無關都是在針對個案哪一個人怎麼樣哪一個人在偵辦的過程中他怎麼樣也有啦也有委員是針對制度不是全部都我沒有一竿子打翻一條船也有委員是在針對制度的這個我個人就非常的認同 |
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267.296 |
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286.366 |
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所以我個人對於今天這樣子安排的主題我個人先提出我個人的一些看法因為這個主題今天也牽涉到我們司法申辦中的案件也牽涉到我們整個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
289.456 |
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301.028 |
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我們境外的敵對勢力對台灣的嚴重滲透等等相關不屬於法務部的職長範圍的一些主題所以我現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
305.543 |
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327.395 |
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我也很不好意思說先請部長上來那如果有相關主題是局長還是我們國安局等等這些不用上來都先不用上來如果有相關主題再上來就好因為我自己其實也不是很清楚說像這樣子的問題我們到底保安部這邊除了就 |
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329.493 |
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356.338 |
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現在在偵辦中的個案這些部分,有一些部分我們也不會在這裡討論之外有一些它其實是跨部會的問題其實剛剛很多委員都在講今天我們稍微之所以安排這樣的主題當然跟近來我們包括總統府、包括國安會包括外交部,甚至包括過去的立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
357.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
385.468 |
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的一些人員齁這個我們在偵辦的過程中發現了這個在這些單位裡面齁確實有這個有這個共諜滲透的具體的證據因此我們展開偵辦嘛齁那事實上齁這個社會大家當然是說啊哇這個外交部裡面也有,總統府裡面也有齁那這個國安會裡面也有共諜 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
386.584 |
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399.958 |
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那其實整個社會我們這十幾二十年來整個台灣社會剛才不分藍綠白委員大家都提到中國對台灣的滲透是無所不在無所不在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
403.629 |
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429.125 |
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不管是總統府,不管是立法院,不管是各政黨不管是地方縣市政府,不管是地方林理長,不管是地方的公廟組織、林理組織甚至黑幫組織、商業組織滲透可以說是無所不在我這邊列出很多案件,我想都不用一一講各黨也都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
430.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
431.45 |
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國民黨過去也有被起訴的民眾黨也有發言人收受中共執行參與選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
448.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
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但是不一樣的是我們關心制度上面制度上面如何來防制境外敵對勢力對我們台灣各個層面的滲透 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
463.066 |
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485.24 |
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我們發現一個案子 發現一個漏洞我們在制度上面我們就那個案子我們來偵辦同時在制度上面我們從同類的案件我們下去下去了解有沒有相類似的案子再來從制度上面我們要來防堵這就是發現這個案子而不是發現案子之後我們馬上就來這個國安會來你要負責民進黨裡面有發現共諜所以民進黨叫做綠共 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
491.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
516.674 |
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先反過來指責被害人一發生過來指責說你們民進黨為什麼所以你們民進黨叫做綠共那今天什麼今天所有的宮廟這些公主都是公共這些黑幫是黑共民眾黨有發言人所以民眾黨這個是重共 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
520.644 |
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544.472 |
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這種扣帽子,然後在這邊這種政治語言,我個人認為是大可不必啦在政治上,大家也都知道在玩什麼樣的把戲啦這個我列出這麼多,大家可以參考啦而且說現在民進黨這麼嚴重那我們看看過去馬英九執政的時候就沒有嗎?欸馬英九餒 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
545.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
567.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
馬英九執政的時候我們國家沒有這些案件被滲透嗎我這邊列出來的馬英九時代的他當任總統時代所發生的這些相關的國安案件有這麼多嗎所以我想這個我一直很不希望說把這個立法院這樣子的質詢當作這個政論節目這樣子來談論藍綠立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
572.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
600.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
但是我認為這些事情我們大家就是要嚴肅的看待我們從制度面上面來防堵未來有可能的這個發生我們現在發生的案子我們嚴密偵辦我們要發現他們的手法我們要發現他們相關的滲透的方式與法律的制裁同時我們也從這些案件裡面去發現這樣子的模式然後我們再 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
602.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
627.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
來修補我們的制度 我們的漏洞如果真的有心我們立法院自己我們就應該稍微來安排一個剛才王宏威委員問我們立法院的助理需不需要安全查核這個很好啊 叫周萬來來啊安排叫立法院秘書長周萬來來報告我們國安立法院的國安 立法院也沒有政風 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
631.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
650.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
然後再來現在的這個兩岸人民關係條例來修改啊我們自己立法院的這些委員到中國沒有限制說不能去但是要報備連核准都不用報備這樣子也不行再有程序委員會擋了363次什麼叫程序委員會擋363次就是不讓你討論你討論都不讓你討論不讓你排進議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
661.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
671.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
不要說贊成加強對立法委員附中國的這些報備程序不要說我贊成我連反對的權力都沒有因為程序委員會就把你封殺了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
675.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
691.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這些國家安全的相關法令的修改修法過程裡面在阻擋然後在這裡在安排這個我們要怎麼樣防堵這個國家機密資訊外洩然後要別人提出檢討報告在我看這個就是標準的雙標所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
697.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
712.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我也看到說我們現在行政院主任長他也有所宣示我希望我們法務部及相關的單位我們按照我們政府現在目前有關這些相關防治措施的強化我們能夠積極研議能夠加強管理 以上 |