| IVOD_ID |
160909 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160909 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-23,22-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-01T12:32:36+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-01T12:42:29+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:53 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/872e8bbe37846fc098e32b575c12c7ca2bf9a8039e28b7cac64ac1618a5937c65072d6cea2f53abe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:32:36 - 12:42:29 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員林楚茵等17人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平台議價法草案」案。二、審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案。四、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「新聞媒體與數位科技平台公平發展法草案」案。五、審查委員林宜瑾等21人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案。六、審查委員范雲等21人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案。
【僅進行詢答】） |
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都是要製造這個效果我們請這個蘇發部的黃部長好 蘇發部的黃部長還有公平會的毛祖密好 公平會委員好委員好已經問了一個早上了我覺得我們現在解決問題把問題 把它我們共同來解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
45.977 |
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這個新聞有價這個是還有一個公平的環境啊台灣這個媒體環境要更能夠健全這個大家都有共識嘛那今天早上發現有一個比較嚴重的問題就是說你提到那個川普的高官稅這個衝擊啦那事實上這個從昨天開始我記得台灣有很多專家學者還有很多很有智慧的朋友馬上就去解決這個問題他說真正 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
72.596 |
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91.991 |
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會對高官稅有衝擊的其實就是你要用抽他的這個社會稅設置這個特種基金嘛對不對那這個我覺得這個我們就可以如果要解決問題這個我們就可以先把它停下來那可是可是讓這個媒體有強制溢價溢價法這個強制溢價我這件事是可以推的 |
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好不好我們還是往這個方向走那我們台灣民眾黨的條文很清楚我們本來是雙管齊下有基金有強制這個議價那強制議價我清楚講一下我們這條文都已經明確講了就是說你要讓媒體有一個強制議價的一個做法讓我們可以去跟這個平台他去談就是一個給他一個法律的一個依據然後程序是要明定的這樣你才能夠有一個方法有一個依據跟你有一個強制力去跟 |
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120.731 |
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145.557 |
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Google對不對跟Meta他們可以談嘛你就給他一個法源那如果我更進一步來講他們現在是有些是個別的例如說我剛剛講可能東森電視台TBS電視台或者自由跟聯合他們自己就已經已經去談了嘛對不對已經去談了嘛對不對那我是希望說我們在這次的法裡面可以明定一些政府到底怎麼去幫忙的所以你們這段時間跟 |
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146.584 |
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171.423 |
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跟Google他們都有聯絡嘛對不對這方面我只是覺得政府要多幫我們的媒體跟我們從業人員然後講你看今天一早大家來這邊背景你看我們的新聞從業人員多辛苦早上都在這裡了可是現在我們碰到什麼問題他們那麼辛苦的在工作可能到後來是做白工啊結果Google就把他們的東西他們拿去用了然後他們就收了廣告 |
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173.281 |
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所以不只是說媒體是要有價的 但是說不公平嘛我相信這個是全世界共同都應該解決的這個問題啦所以不能夠卡住 我當然不能夠in a face就是說我們現在有一個共識就是說 你每天都吃飯一樣嘛對不對 你已經發現這個已經不公平啊對我們的媒體從業人也不公平 對我們媒體產業也不公平 |
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195.39 |
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那政府有責任要多幫忙委員講的問題的確是問題啦那也就是我們一直很關心的問題只是說強制溢價法這個媒體溢價強制這個方法目前在經過這兩年三年在澳洲實施目前在2024年這兩個大我們講的是兩個大媒體一個Google一個Meta都不再付錢這個就變成是一個問題就是說在澳洲實施上是我們從經濟學 |
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223.373 |
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244.13 |
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他大欺小 強凌肉對不對然後對成我們台灣的媒體受到影響啊我們要去力爭嘛那沒有錯 我也接受就是說沒有錯我們現在剛好碰到一個高關稅的這個風暴那可是我們不能停下來就不能音樂會社就停下來啊我們還是要去做嘛 要去爭取嘛而且你看到我們台積電都去了投資了一千億美金一開始美國還不弄了一個32% |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
246.555 |
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270.281 |
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我們該爭取自己該有的 那自己不能夠先放棄啦報告委員 就是現在是兩個問題一個就是說到底強制一架法是不是真的能夠幫助我們台灣的新聞媒體我現在這個東西從澳洲的兩年經驗看起來開始要打問號因為澳洲已經停止 就是說有一些包括Economics就是經濟資源雜誌都說這個法是 加拿大跟澳洲這個法是失敗的 |
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271.181 |
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那主要其實我們在講所謂的這個大平台就兩個一個叫Google一個叫MetaMeta已經到處不付錢那Google也要撤出像在澳洲的付費的機制所以這個法到底是幫助了Local媒體還是傷害Local媒體這個就是讓我們非常猶豫的原因因為我們看到的是 |
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291.673 |
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320.419 |
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並沒有幫助所以我在講就是部長你說你看是沒有幫助我們看到為什麼是有幫助那是過他曾經兩年但是我說2024年他們做了某些停止都不代表說以後不會往前走我們有跟這兩個完全負面的我講兩個很重要的事情保定你有注意去年的十幾個我們的這個平面媒體電子媒體跟數位媒體共同做了一個媒體共同聲明你有看到這個聲明嗎聲明裡面就講到三個三個事情嘛一個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
321.789 |
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340.582 |
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我們的從業人員跟我們的媒體產業大大量的這個大量的這個內容啊全部都被拿去用了啊他們變成做白工這一堆臉嘛現在碰到是什麼是臉書跟google他們還收入的這很大的一個廣告哎啊老實講你說他們有沒有不是有沒有有些護士你知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
343.476 |
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365.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那個Google曾經播了三年三億三億對不對它也成立了一個基金希望在這個媒體上他們不是沒有做啦對啦所以是可以是可以往前走當然就是這個金額太小了欸因為Google跟那個Meta他們一年在台灣賺到的錢可能就是400億以上的廣告費嘛你再去提一個一年一億所以那時候很多專家寫者就很生氣啊那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
367.003 |
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384.96 |
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我現在在提醒你就是說你不要變成說好像是一個不公平的狀況下大輕小強强凌弱的時候然後媒體都已經發出了要求要解決的聲音了我覺得政府要幫他們挺住要幫他們挺住而且你現在今天我一早上聽下來你這樣一直覺得說走到現在好像是 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
386.209 |
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410.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
澳洲跟加拿大變成他們後來是不是被推翻了也不一定喔這個應該是現在進行式嘛對不對以前曾經解決的問題那現在有一部分就停了還是可以繼續再談啊那更重要的我同意你我同意你如果有高關稅這個風暴那我們可以我們可以早先再開公聽會可是不能停下來好不好我們會開公聽會我們會再繼續跟那另外有一個來來那個公平會的那個主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
413.357 |
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436.025 |
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這次這個議價有可能是一個單一媒體去議價也有可能是一個公會集體去議價嘛對不對這裡面跟你公平會只有關係嘛對不對如果是涉及單一的話不會但是如果是涉及多媒體的話那原則上是我們是認為說這種如果這個媒體的力量如果不足的時候希望大家聯合去跟一個去談的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
437.405 |
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455.378 |
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我們公民法裡頭這15條聯合行為例外許可我們可以透過這個例外許可可以讓他們去聯合起來去跟Google去談這個事情這就是很積極認識嘛對不對幫我們台灣啊幫我們這個媒體啊而且另外我們在條文裡面我們明定了一條啦就是我們會免除 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
456.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
483.153 |
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公交法裡面對於業者透過聯合組織或者是跟這個工會或者是平台去議價的一個禁止條款我們在修法裡面我們會把它拿掉好不好就是明定這個東西不要讓我們媒體要去聯合議價的時候有碰到這個困擾好不好然後更重要的是你剛才說的我這很好你更積極面了嘛我們去處理消極面你現在積極面更去幫他們OK好謝謝宮平那我最後問一個那個NCC主委的來好 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
486.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
502.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你今天早上被問到好幾次啊你都講說有些媒體已經去去議價了嘛基本上碰到了滿大的問題所以我具體做三個三個要求做三個要求這NCC要幫助我們的業者第一個要揭露要揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
503.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
524.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
Google跟臉書他們新聞內容流量貢獻度等於說你在做用我們的媒體的這個內容的時候這個貢獻度到底有多少他要公開揭露這個你應該試著去做一個要求這個我們在條文裡面我們也會明確的要求第二個要求要揭露新聞排序或者是你推波演算法的邏輯跟變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
525.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
546.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
就你今天早上講的啦本來去談這個月是一百萬突然下個月變五十萬那問題出在什麼地方就因為沒有公開透明嘛對不對所以要求第一項跟第二項另外第三項我們明定明定平台不得沒有預警的去修改新聞的這個內容我們現在不是只有做白宮給他們用欸有時候內容要給我們亂改欸對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
548.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
569.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個應該也是我們要去要求要不然這會導致我們整個媒體有時候形象受損或者我們媒體的流量也會大幅的下滑好不好後續立法的時候我們會把這個重大議題跟平台來溝通所以我們各個部會做我們該做的事情我們很期待讓我們的辛苦的新聞工作人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
570.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
592.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
得到他們該拿到的 不要再繼續做白狗那希望我們的產業 媒體的產業也能夠整個賤錢起來現在媒體真的是很慘啦你看每個人都在伸手跟政府要錢弄到後來拿我們人民的納稅錢給他有時候還要洗你的腦 這樣都不好我們只要把這個法好好修媒體醫治法修好 對我們整個媒體的產業環境啊遞釋錢的這個賤錢 對我們民主發展會有很大幫助那這會很努力 好不好 好 謝謝 |