| IVOD_ID |
160895 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160895 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-23,22-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-01T10:32:22+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-01T10:44:58+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:36 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/872e8bbe37846fc0d2b05e8d383e8a462bf9a8039e28b7ca5144d4d67ecd09c11eeae6d87bcf22d85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蔡其昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:32:22 - 10:44:58 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員林楚茵等17人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平台議價法草案」案。二、審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案。四、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「新聞媒體與數位科技平台公平發展法草案」案。五、審查委員林宜瑾等21人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案。六、審查委員范雲等21人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案。
【僅進行詢答】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 請速發部黃部長好 速發部黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
11.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
37.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長早部長我想今天這個大家都很關心立法院很多委員都提出了不同的版本那面對這個特別是新聞產業的困境大家都很知道這個內容生產在於辛苦的媒體記者但在平台業者的使用上面卻沒有任何的這種回饋機制或者收費的這個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
39.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
63.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
在討論這個問題之前本席也有很多的疑惑今天也藉這個機會來請教一下速發部這個最近在網路上也很紅也很多關心體育的體育迷關心新聞假訊息的傳播學者大家都在關注這個題目這個題目很簡單有一家體育的媒體叫Top5 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
66.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
87.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
它每一個標題因為流量至上現在的網路世界民眾的訊息五成來自網路新聞訊息五成來自網路那來自網路又加上流量是關鍵甚至流量可以轉變成收入所以大家就開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
111.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
把標題誇張化甚至誇張到變成假的譬如說我隨便舉個例這個媒體的平台他的標題都很聳動我隨便舉個例子這個確定了中職直升大聯盟第二人徐若曦進軍費城人謝謝你魏全榮徐若曦還在魏全榮投球 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
112.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
131.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
沒有費城仁這件事情那唯一有的是什麼費城仁的球探去看徐若曦投球所以就確定了他就要去費城仁這不是 如果是偶爾一次 那就是說他可能是失誤啦我隨便再講 幾乎啦 每隔幾天可能就會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
133.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
152.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個神尊家法官駕目擊表態美國WBC夢幻外野陣容確定然後卡載卡載就是有資格在美國大聯盟祥偉蛇隊有資格參加台灣隊的選手叫卡洛他說卡洛確定卡載正式歸隊台灣天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
155.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我作為WBC國家隊的領隊我正在規劃七月有沒有可能我親自去美國去邀請卡仔可不可以拜託他來參加我們的台灣隊我就不用去啦 他就已經確定了 這個就公然這樣這只有兩則嘛 那個下一頁 你看這些全部都是啦全部啦 我還沒全部列完耶 還很多咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
209.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
張玉成說為何中職人讓人看不起張玉成攤牌大檸檬伙食桃園你吃那個連叉都不吃張玉成根本沒講這個話啦他只有接受媒體訪問媒體問他說請問你以前在大檸檬吃什麼他就講他在大檸檬吃什麼他沒有講說那個樂天桃園對你的那個叉都不吃啊他完全沒有講這個這就是標題阿強請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
239.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我也不知道啦齁這個是你管的還是誰管的報告委員這個齁這個很多訊息我們我們我們大概沒有辦法去管因為很多訊息真假要專業判斷齁包括剛委員講的這個這個我們不應該由蘇華部來沒關係那這個到底是在中華民國的政府架構底下這個到底是誰管誰該為這個事情有一個態度出來這個NCC這個來來來NCC來來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
247.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
273.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
委員好那我這邊補充跟委員報告關於網路新聞的部分我們大概有在處理網路新聞自律這一塊的因為它目前是沒有作用法說是用自律的方式處理我們在去年底有發布這個網路新聞自律原則然後今年會做一個更往前去邁進一步就是要類似做他們一個聯盟或者一個組織的方式來處理那個聯盟會組織我們今年會有一個案子大概320萬會去做一個類似 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
276.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
292.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
類似以前那個公共監督的角色比方說我會去做一些觀察評價之類的那我們也這是今年度要做的事情那過往 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
293.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
321.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
到現在我們除了找這個網路新聞國內的網路新聞業者包括我們廣播業者的延伸自己做的還有一些自媒體我們都有邀請他們來做座談會也請相關政府部門來表達他們的對他們的期待跟需求也希望他們維持做好一個自律特別是要做事實查證剛剛委員所舉的很多東西其實是沒有事實查證的但是因為回到剛剛一開始講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
322.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
347.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
目前沒有作用法所以只能用自律的方式來處理但是我們會用公開間公開的方式用他律他自律的部分加上他律就是一個第三方式來一起做協作以上好所以其實簡單講我聽你們兩個講完就是沒有任何人在管簡單講就是這樣子嘛我聽完你們兩個解釋完就是NCC跟蘇發部對於這種這麼明顯誇張的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
351.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
377.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我其實知道啦 我其實完全知道你們要講什麼啦因為所謂的假新聞在台灣這種高度對立的社會特別是政治高度對立的社會大家都負責 互相指稱對方那個是假新聞所以讓我們很難去產生一個上帝這個上帝來判斷誰是真誰是假但是我們應該設計一個機制透過一個公開透明的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
379.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
400.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
來做一點基本處理那像這種我只要求啦像這種他也不是什麼藍綠綠他就明顯當事人都在嘛就當事人都在我其實我也很簡單很多人來問我這個聯盟的會長說要怎麼處理因為我們聯盟都是受害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
401.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
428.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那對我們該怎麼處理就是我現在面對政府官員你們在這裡我問你們說當這些事實這些都是明確都是假的因為都有辦法把當事人找來我們在藍綠工坊的假新聞裡面因為雙方都指責對方這是不對的那但是這種明顯受害然後呢也可以查證那你覺得我們應該怎麼處理比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
429.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
449.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
跟委員補充報告不管是有作用法的領域跟現在沒有作用法的這個傳播的網路新聞媒體這一塊其實都有第三方的協力具體而言就是第三方查核的比方說我現在的第三方我要怎麼處理讓不在在台灣的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
450.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
467.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
體育的市場上不再出現這種明顯誇張為了賺流量造假的這個新聞怎麼處理跟委員報告那個委員講的這個方向也是我們抒發不一直想要努力的方向但是自從川普在次當選總統以後事情又有一些變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
468.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
490.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第一個就是美國本來那個META他是委託第三方的事實查核機構來做事實查核但是川普總統上任以後就是施壓那個META現在META已經停止跟美國的事實查核機構共同合作另外一件事情是在今年2025年2月26號美國FCC發了一封公開信給美國所有的媒體巨頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
491.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
507.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
裡面就講說如果這些包含那個META還有X等等他如果在其他的國家受到其他的國家的政府的施壓要求他們做一些言論審查那而且是違反就是美國憲法第一條修正案的精神那美國憲法第一條的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
509.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
532.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
他們就必須跟美國報告他們說這是這些公司他們的責任也是他們的義務他們的權利那美國憲法第一條修正案那是美國人的看法他們認為說政府不應該涉入這種事實的基本上就是不應該涉入那個媒體的管制所以這件事情對我們來講的確是一個我們很想做但是現在又有點擔心的事情以上報告 謝謝對對對 但是喔這樣的解釋其實我簡單講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
538.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
567.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
言論自由該不該有它的約束就美國講這個意思就是說所以美國也沒有言論自由是無限的我鼓勵殺人如果這是體育啊OK沒有問題那個美國憲法第一條修正案依照他們那個大法官過去的判例就是鼓勵殺人的話這是不像所以它有限制嘛有限制啊那你覺得中華民國應不應該也有限制就是我現在告訴你大家都知道這是假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
569.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
587.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
然後中華民國的政府告訴我他們沒辦法處理我只是問這個啦我常常在這裡講詐騙我講了很多很多的案例告訴你我也知道你們在那裡但是你們不可以給我雙手一攤說這就是自律啦大家自律 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
587.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
604.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
不好意思再跟委員報告補充一下在以前羅振偉時代他有主持一些會議其實對假訊息的定義是要有惡、假、害這三個要素構成然後呢有構成這個之後然後是做部會來聯訪成假、易假、破假 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
605.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
625.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
視角齁 這個四個面向來做 目前大致上是在平衡這個言論自由跟這個惡假害之間來做處理我瞭解啦 我懂你的意思 但我只是現 我就我身為一個國會議員在這裡問你說 當我遇到這樣子我要怎麼處理 你們都一直跟我講原則你就跟我說我明天要去警察局報案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
627.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
642.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我到底要怎麼處理嘛我一國會議員理事堂問你這個你都還沒辦法回答我你說一般的人遇到這問題他要怎麼處理我現在很簡單我不想跟你討論那些大道理啦我都知道我就告訴你言論自由我們不要選我們不想選一個上帝啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
643.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
653.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
但是問題是不能因為沒有上帝所以呢所以變成地獄嘛沒有這種事情嘛我現在就是在這裡問你說我回到這裡我也不知道要怎麼處理啊誰可以跟我說這款的假訊息不能這樣三五天就出現一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
660.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
687.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
對這個您如果把這個資料給我們我們可以跟META溝通我們可以有管道要求他們下架這沒問題對嘛你就是我要的就是你總是要讓台灣社會知道說就確定假訊息我們可以要求他們下架我們不想選上帝但我們不想台灣變地獄嘛這個我們可以處理就是把委員把資料給我們總是你要有一個方法不讓台灣變地獄嘛我們現在跟META有很好的溝通管道所以這個東西我們是有辦法去要求你們沒有版本我很了解啦這些法案你們沒有版本我很了解雖然我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
688.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
712.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
媒體的工作者很辛苦啦台灣的媒體產業再這樣搞下去媒體的環境是越來越艱困沒有人以後沒有人要生產內容嘛生產內容的人他都沒有任何得到任何回報我知道你們為什麼不敢沒有行政院的版本嘛因為很難啦澳洲的經驗加拿大的經驗都讓我們覺得沒那麼簡單啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
714.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
736.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我都很清楚,但不可以這麼簡單,所以我們就放任整個台灣媒體也不要插名,讓他們都自生自滅這裡明顯,明顯我就跟你說這就是假的,不是偶爾出現就算了嘛,偶爾不小心犯錯,我們怎麼可以把人家這樣子這就接二連三一直出來,一直出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
737.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
753.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
在社會在體育圈也形成了一個很大的話題阿咱政府束手無策這話就沒辦法接受嘛部長你懂我的意思啦趕快處理啦我會後就把這資料給你嘛你們看該怎麼處理就趕快處理好不好謝謝 |