| IVOD_ID |
160877 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160877 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-01T10:21:23+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-01T10:30:41+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/872e8bbe37846fc023dde18acbfd10d01fb26350580dc1695144d4d67ecd09c1762f5bddbbf20da75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:21:23 - 10:30:41 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員陳冠廷等21人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員沈伯洋等17人擬具「國家安全法第十三條及第十三條之一條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員陳冠廷等23人擬具「國家安全法第四條及第八條條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員邱志偉等16人擬具「國家安全法第三條條文修正草案」案。五、審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。六、審查委員王定宇等16人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。七、審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「國家安全法第三條、第八條及第十八條條文修正草案」案。八、審查委員陳冠廷等19人擬具「國家安全法增訂第十九條之一條文草案」案。九、審查委員黃捷等16人擬具「國家安全法第二條、第三條及第七條條文修正草案」案。） |
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謝謝主席,麻煩有請陸委會副主委法務部政事以及國土安全辦的主任好是,委員好三位都上來了嘛好,時間的關係,問一問後一開始啊國家安全法的主管機關是哪一個機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
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包國元行政院是有行政院嘛那所以今天有誰代表行政院發言包國元今天院裡面有我們國土安全辦公室好OK來第一個問題喔中國啊對台灣的敵意啊我相信所有的人都知道啊目前對台灣的國家安全啊造成最大威脅的就是中華人民共和國啊政策上面的立場洩密 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
59.432 |
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給中華人民共和國跟泄密給一般的外國刑罰應該要予以區別對待講得更具體一點泄密給中華人民共和國應該要加重處罰這件事情行政院的立場如何行政院有沒有立場我剛特別請可以代表行政院立場的人上來回答這個問題行政院贊不贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
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這個涉及到我們內部還要再做一些討論跟委員報告我想我們今天出席國土辦出席主要是因為涉及到關鍵基礎設施的事項來進行出席那所以呢剛剛我就問嘛可以代表行政院發言的是誰嘛要不然各個部會國家足球隊踢來踢去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
111.583 |
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說中國是我們的境外敵對勢力對境外敵對勢力我說洩密給他們要加重處罰怎麼每一個人都畏畏縮縮的啊行政院到現在喔你剛剛的回答是說這件事情還要研議是不是還需要研議多久跨部會的事項剛剛不是講得很清楚了嗎這個主管機關是行政院今天行政院是由你代表回答我有說錯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
139.642 |
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163.475 |
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報告委員今天因為這個涉及到院的奇怪今天國家安全法喔第二條也好第三條也好第七條也好第八條也好全部涉及的條文如果主管機關是行政院的話今天可以代表誰代表行政院回答是法務部嗎還是陸委會還是沒有人可以代表那要不然今天辦這個質詢到底有什麼意義 |
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165.071 |
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是由法務部代表嗎委員今天的邀請名單是由內政委員會提供的是 這我知道啊沒有關係 因為是關於刑法的部分那我們不能說我們代表行政院回答但是這個基本的立場我們可知贊同以上你說這個立場法務部是贊同的那很奇怪啊因為我上個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
188.627 |
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這是要法治委員會質詢法務部部長啊我直接問部長啊說洩密給中國要加重處罰這件事情啊結果部長含糊其詞欸跟今天國土辦的立場一樣欸那今天你是次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
203.431 |
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227.756 |
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市長代表法務部表示贊成就對了我想這個部分因為還是要經過法制作業的研議程序所以呢所以是在沒有經過法制作業的研議程序你個人表示贊成就對了所以你是個人贊成還是代表法務部贊成還是代表行政院贊成我個人的意見你個人意見嘛好來我一次講啦讓跨部會的代表帶意見回去給行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
228.632 |
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我向來的主張啊 洩密給中國 刑度就是要加重處罰但我覺得很奇怪啊 我從第九屆國會的時候再修國家安全法 再修國家機密保護法民進黨所展現出來的態度是什麼 都反對啦 都反對啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
249.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
274.519 |
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上面這些都有當初協商的紀錄啦有我跟邱泰山尋答的紀錄啊全部都反對說泄密給中國不用加重處罰我從第九屆國會的時候看到這個立法態度我就覺得很奇怪啊中國是我們最大的外患泄密給中國加重處罰有什麼錯為什麼為什麼民進黨表示反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
275.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
291.422 |
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到這一屆國會的時候我們所提出的國家機密保護法一樣泄密給中國談到民眾黨黨團所提出來的修法加重處罰泄密給中國跟泄密給我們的盟友處罰就是應該不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
293.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
311.816 |
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最重要的政策立場我到目前為止整個行政院沒有看到這樣子一個清楚的表態這是立法程序作業的問題嗎這應該是立法政策的問題嘛你立法政策要定了你立法政策要定了接下來在法條的設計上 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
313.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
338.288 |
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都是相對簡單的問題啦好 今天針對有關於啊洩密給中國我們在法定型的處理上 所謂法定型回到今天討論的國家安全法就第七條 第八條的規定嘛洩密給中國不管是機密 不管是公務上的秘密不管是關鍵基礎設施上面陰秘密的事項法定型都調高法務部贊不贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
340.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
368.169 |
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我想這個部的意見還是要經過這個研究所以今天沒有辦法表態 來 陸委會贊不贊成我們陸委會對於任何增強國家安全的那個方法跟措施我們都贊成所以呢 副主委你回答得非常易數啊那你就直接講你贊成就好了嘛我個人贊成你市長個人贊成 副主委個人也贊成 來國土辦的贊不贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
370.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
396.889 |
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就我們主管的關鍵基礎設施防護裡面因為也有相關的法令規定所以當然我們做這樣的一個認同好 我們接下來處理法案的時候就見證章了啦我希望到處理的時候行政部門不要推三阻四的說還要再研議接下來第二個重要的問題剛有其他的委員問到現在綠色共諜橫行府院黨全部都淪陷了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
398.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
422.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
當然執政黨的委員幫執政黨講話這個我都可以理解我也沒有怪執政黨的委員但我們現在要討論的重要的問題是什麼重要的問題是當我開始追這件事情的時候我看到的是什麼我看到的事情是依照現行的辦法這些可以接觸到機密的人要喊請法務部調查局辦理特殊查核但問題是就沒辦嗎就沒辦嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
425.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
434.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
應該辦理特殊查核 卻沒有辦理特殊查核來 請教一下行政院的立場應該辦 卻沒有辦 要不要追究責任還是這個要請法務部次長回答應該辦 沒有辦 要不要追究責任因為這個部分所涉及的機關首長也不是我們我們是受理 調查局是受理連一個基本態度都不敢給喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
455.046 |
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468.188 |
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如果有違私的話當然要辦啦好如果有違私的話當然要辦來怎麼辦依照現行法法律的效果應該要辦特殊查核卻沒有辦特殊查核法律效果是什麼來請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
471.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
491.064 |
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這個是公務人員服務法的規定所以咧應該要辦沒有辦嘛那法律效果是什麼這顯然非常重大的國安漏洞嘛應該要辦特殊查核沒有辦特殊查核結果搞到去洩密洩密給共匪責任可以不用追究嗎來請教次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
495.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
512.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
呃 這個部分應該是人事主管法規所以你也沒辦法回答嘛好 沒關係我下面的意見喔 三位再帶回去啦我也不曉得今天這個詢答到底是怎麼排的找了三個人來沒有一個人有辦法代表這個法的主管機關行政院講話我具體的意見啦 是這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
514.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
529.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這些該辦沒有辦特殊查核的從外交部到總統府我具體的意見啦是沒有依法辦特殊查核的出發要有明確的法律效果沒有明確的法律效果大家都在混嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
530.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
556.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
全部的人都在混啊發現應該辦沒有辦誰要負責國家足球隊又出來啦踢來踢去那我就問一個最核心的關鍵法律問題應該辦沒有辦的法律效果是什麼現行法複製缺乳我代表台灣民眾黨立法院黨團在這邊直接講針對這件事情重大法律上面的缺漏必須要可與罰則這件事情我們會提出啊修正的動議把它補強好謝謝 |