IVOD_ID |
160851 |
IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160851 |
日期 |
2025-05-01 |
會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-11 |
會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
會議資料.屆 |
11 |
會議資料.會期 |
3 |
會議資料.會次 |
11 |
會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
影片種類 |
Clip |
開始時間 |
2025-05-01T09:26:02+08:00 |
結束時間 |
2025-05-01T09:40:52+08:00 |
影片長度 |
00:14:50 |
支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/872e8bbe37846fc0bca3c794e930ea054de01e9c6ce9529705daebae4db85f91672f50a45871b9275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
委員發言時間 |
09:26:02 - 09:40:52 |
會議時間 |
2025-05-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議(事由:審查:
一、本院委員魯明哲等 19 人擬具「再生能源發展條例第十三條條文修正草案」案。
二、本院委員謝衣鳯等 17人擬具「再生能源發展條例第十三條條文修正草案」案。
【4月30日及5月1日二天一次會】) |
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請問郭部長郭部長好 委員長郭部長 你說核管法修法過了核三長就可以研立嘛對不對 這是你昨天去專訪以前清清楚楚說的嘛那你知道核管法最近就要三讀通過了嗎 你知道嗎我不知道 |
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5月17號 5月16號就過 所以你到時候會兌現諾言也是為了我們企業發展 為了我們全民好河山就可以研擬 對不對在法令的規定之下 我們政府一定是在法跟規 |
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的這個規定之下呢我們來運作啦齁那客觀法修過了我要看他修的內容是什麼我們還是要在法的框架之下去運作跳脫法的框架我們還是沒有辦法做因為我們是政府齁所以萬一沒辦法齁沒辦法請委員你講一講啊那閃的就過了沒辦法沒有啦不是閃的就過了柏定你昨天是對著全民講啊那個是一個公開的 |
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公開的講話 我講的意思就是說我們在核管法修過以後因為修成什麼樣子我不知道但是修在我們可以依循的這個框架之內我們一定是依法行事啦框架 修法的重點就是你剛剛講的嘛它是把40年 我們本來40年要除役嘛變成60年 這個是明確有修的 |
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第二個 我要明天跟你講事實上為什麼要這樣修 因為最近這1到3年日本就已經把它的40年改成延長到60年了美國有些廠 核電廠 還從40年已經變成80年了是跟國際接軌的 這次事實上就是你講的 我們是有修這個條文的 |
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所以你講話你要兌現你的諾言我現在跟你講我報告委員我是政府的一份子我們一定是尊敬所有的法規來行事啦所以我對在法規之內的事情我承諾的我一定做得到 |
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所以你承諾如果修過了就是要核酸演繹嘛不然的話你就變成耍嘴皮子的這個部長了不是耍嘴皮子喔所以你有沒有對線你昨天講的話有沒有對線核酸廠的演繹在法律規定之內的事情我承諾的我就會去做我承諾在法律規定之外的我不會去做法律規定之外的我不會做我也不承諾 |
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因為我不知道 你現在是一個假設的命題在那裡我假設啊 條文這麼清楚啊就是你昨天對著全民講的啦40年延長到我在講的是在這個法規之內我們基本上還是那個三原則但是你修過了我那個三個原則基本上的三個原則如果今天法律的規定之內我可以做 我就做啊 |
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你不是要在這裡說嗎 你說三個原則裡面核廢料嘛你說美國會幫我們處理嘛 對不對你剛才說的還有甘氏的這個儲存潮甘氏儲存潮不短期 甘氏儲存潮可以放50年 更重要的先進國家現在都是這樣處理嘛 對不對美國 日本 韓國 法國 它現在的核廢料放在哪裡都也是甘氏儲存潮嘛 而且可以放50年啊 |
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我們會交給技術部門來確認我想我們也不可能我們台灣在這一方面的領域確實有一些專家但是這種事情每一個世界在世界上每一個國家他買的那個設備的時代跟機種可能不會都一樣 |
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每一個機器都不會一樣你剛講的核廢料啦就是你剛講的嘛但是因為機器不一樣啦亂出來的核廢料委員你可能不太清楚就是每一台機器所用的這個鈾原料那個鈾棒是定做的 |
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這個你可能不清楚我們現在說合會要處理嘛所以你剛才說了嘛你不是專訪的時候講得很清楚全美國包括AIT的處長都講了你說可以請他們幫忙處理嘛對不對啊等於全世界都是這樣放放在幹事的處分場全世界都是這樣沒有錯但是處理的方法是不一樣的嘛處理方法不會一樣啊 |
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因為那個規格 所有的 美國可以處理日本可以處理 法國可以處理所有全世界用核能都 核廢料都可以處理現在台灣沒有辦法處理不是 台灣沒有辦法 太怪了吧沒有喔 委員你現在又在講話術了台灣可不可以處理我們尋求可以處理的方法來處理OK 好 所以你在尋求可以嘛其實 好 來那你說安不安全 柏林你知道嗎 |
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國際原子能總署啊 對我們核電廠的評比啊是前段班欸 全世界第六名你剛才也說啊 它已經用了 全世界用了四十年啊是安全的嘛 對不對所以安全我認為沒有問題啊 核廢料問題也解決了啊第三個 等於全民共識啦你去看看那個最近的 最近這兩三年的民調都馬上是七成以上 認為要重啟核能啊欸 我們還有公投過欸 以核養綠對不對 |
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養麗就是要用核電啊對不對那你說要全民共識這個全民共識是跟台灣民眾的全民共識還是跟賴清德跟民進黨的全民共識如果是跟全民的話那些民調都是啊那我們現在要推動要更領濟全民的共識所以我們推了一個河山研議嘛你說多此一舉這不就是要弄死你們第三項嗎委員你又講錯囉河山研議 |
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全民共識 你剛才在講 你是講說共識這個問題不是這樣子嘛 你的意思可能是說 河山研議要不要公投啦 是不是對啦 公投就在臨近全民共識嘛所以你剛講的那三個條件都符合嘛 合會要處理安全我是講說 如果按照你的邏輯來講啦 公投是多此一舉嘛 |
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你剛才講過了啊對不對 你剛才講過了為什麼要多此一舉就是你要公投就浪費錢啊一次就要五億然後又要花很多的時間對不對你們耐清的總統跟民進黨不就是說要有領濟全民共識嗎公投第一個是憲法附給人民的權利耶你跟民意要對上跟憲法都要對上嗎 |
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那第二個更重要你說你要領濟全民共識公投就是一種領濟全民共識的方法啊那個委員你的主張我沒有意見只是人家主持人問我嘛我表達的意思這樣而已好不好我們意見有很多不一樣的我剛講說你們講的這三項都已經解決了然後你要公開講說這個核管法因為你的目的通過之後就是要沒有沒有保定我已經講過囉核管法其實要通過 |
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核管法通過那一天院長也在大院裡面講得非常的清楚核管法通過的時候是大家理性討論然後通過的他不會復議啊你們講說通過你也來復議嗎我跟委員報告你可以問院長這是他講的話我想那個也有記錄嘛所以我 |
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對我來講我的基本原則是這樣子報告委員我們基本原則是這樣在法律的規定之下我們不會預法 |
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也不會越法我們一定會按照法律核准的範圍裡面去試做這個就是我們公務同仁做事情的一個依規嘛依法就是依核管法嘛現在全民在看我們經濟部長講話算話嗎經濟部長能夠講話不算話嗎現在全民希望你講出人民的需求只要在法律的規定之內我講的話都算數 |
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算數嘛對不對 所以現在錢比方看你會不會變成 又縮斷了不是啦 說回去又變成是一個耍嘴皮子 耍嘴皮子的這個步伐 懷疑這個懷疑那個委員 懷疑那個沒有意義啦你為什麼不懷疑說太陽從西邊出來來 保定 你也是重點嘛 你說河冷五月全部歸零以後啊不會對空氣有影響我給你看一下喔 去年河山廠的一號機 |
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除以以後 你馬上跟麥寮電廠就續約啦麥寮電廠燒沒了 對不對這對空氣有沒有影響所以那一天有17個團體喔彰化 雲林 嘉義還有17個團體的民眾到行政院跟 |
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監察院來抗議他們講什麼經濟部縱容繼續燒煤本來已經停了嘛我們賣了本來已經停了結果就是因為河山場一號機停了以後你看就是一個對比嘛繼續去買這個賣了的慢性殺人 |
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他說每多發一度的這個煤就在155公里的麥寮電廠污染範圍之內這是無差別持續在射殺國人的生命這是一個慢性的殺人麥寮是全台灣第二大污染源這什麼空氣會好呢你從去年的麥寮就看出來它是有問題的 |
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你一直在講說天然氣是乾淨的,還有低碳的天然氣我給大家看一個數據,這是台電的數據啦台電112年火力發電的排放量在空氣污染這部分啊,燃氣就是天然氣喔它是燃煤的,在氮氧化物啊,它是燃煤的47%,不是沒有啊 |
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燃煤0.173 燃氣是0.082 是有喔 差不多一半另外呢 PM10 就是悬浦的這個微粒燃煤是0.005 燃氣是多少 0.004 85%天然氣沒有什麼乾淨的 沒有乾淨的天然氣啦 |
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他還是有汙染啊對不對他如果跟咱們也比稍微低一點點我們從來沒有講過說天然氣是零碳的你不要把我們說低碳的東西你把它講成零碳這個就是完全用化術對嘛不是化術嘛不一定不一定我們是理性物質科學在討論嘛你說郭志輝講說不會對空氣有什麼影響嘛我現在跟你說就是有影響嘛 |
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transcript.whisperx[28].end |
705.765 |
transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我剛才給你一個很清楚的數據啊你這麼計較這個有影響 微量影響 稍微影響都要這樣子表示我們會依據你希望表達的方式先分歧 你認為我們應該分歧幾這個影響很大嘛 我剛剛跟你講你賣了 你賣了都會用 賣了繼續用賣了繼續用 我們跟台電是一個團體 |
transcript.whisperx[29].start |
714.369 |
transcript.whisperx[29].end |
729.347 |
transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們跟他的契約行為政府不能夠違反契約行為喔所以你不能用這一個每一次你都用那個契約行為就是到去年的4月就停了嘛你們是重新又去續的一個月發貴啊我 |
transcript.whisperx[30].start |
732.47 |
transcript.whisperx[30].end |
734.051 |
transcript.whisperx[30].text |
政府看的契約我們有多少的人在看政府可以違反這個契約嗎 |
transcript.whisperx[31].start |
751.687 |
transcript.whisperx[31].end |
769.819 |
transcript.whisperx[31].text |
政府可以違反契約嗎 否定 否定你在這個契約上面再知道 去年的重點是什麼就是麥寮跟台電本來合約已經停了嘛 對不對 是不是這樣25年嘛 那就是因為你核電廠 核伊林被關掉之後你去拿了這個東西又來 又去買 又繼續買啊 買到今年年底啊 |
transcript.whisperx[32].start |
771.328 |
transcript.whisperx[32].end |
792.452 |
transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以你人民跟社團都上來抗議啊我都知情過你啊所以當然對我們的健康對空氣有影響對不對第二個我今天拿的是你們台電的資料天然氣也是有汙染它當然比這個煤稍微低一點點可是還是有對不對它如果跟核電比當然會增加很多所以我現在是要跟你講你不要講說空氣沒有變好 |
transcript.whisperx[33].start |
797.574 |
transcript.whisperx[33].end |
811.847 |
transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好啦因為我本來要問其他的時間已經到了啦現在最重要的啦5月17號核光法就過了就看你到底能不能讓核三嚴厲現在全民都在看不要變成耍嘴彼此的這個經濟鋪葬第二個核三 |
transcript.whisperx[34].start |
813.992 |
transcript.whisperx[34].end |
831.105 |
transcript.whisperx[34].text |
廠停了之後5月17號之後我們變成非核加鹽我們的電價不只變貴了成本增加了嘛空氣污染也增加5月17號以後你看我會不會漲價啦好不好5月18號各位可以看一下喔5月18號看我們電價有沒有漲如果電價有漲 |
transcript.whisperx[35].start |
832.546 |
transcript.whisperx[35].end |
843.8 |
transcript.whisperx[35].text |
5月18號那天電價有漲我下台好不好5月18號以後沒有漲請委員你說回這句話部長你為什麼要壓5月18號你不是一直在講10月10月份可能電價審議委員會開完以後電價審議委員會什麼時候開沒有錯 |
transcript.whisperx[36].start |
848.106 |
transcript.whisperx[36].end |
860.238 |
transcript.whisperx[36].text |
電價審議委會什麼時候開電價審議委會你可以講電價審議委會什麼時候開電價審議委會九月底才開啊沒有開怎麼上架那你這不劃數嗎你要檢視 你要駁定你要檢視的是五一七之後那個十月份會不會漲駁定 你要五月十七一號十月份會不會漲電價你說五月十七一號會起價啊那是你說的啊 |
transcript.whisperx[37].start |
872.17 |
transcript.whisperx[37].end |
889.048 |
transcript.whisperx[37].text |
你馬上會第一時間就找嗎你當然開定價審議委員會啊所以人民要問你的事你每一次講話都是講第二天以後會變怎麼樣大委員大部長那是不是我們現在我們把時間對待主席要講了啦保證 人民要看你的是10月1號有沒有上架啦OK 好 謝謝好 謝謝 |