| IVOD_ID |
160823 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160823 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-30T12:35:13+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-30T12:46:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:04 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b6da7da99b942369b6624f0e88a8b7628b6df88a6e7dffca98ab4b80bc74e67d07496cb2378364c25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:35:13 - 12:46:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、經濟部及內政部就「五一勞動節前夕，我國勞工職場預防職業災害及場(廠)墜落事故之檢討與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【4月30日及5月1日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席 有請洪部長 |
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41.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長好去年12月25號在台北市政府他們有辦一個跨年晚會那當時呢就是有一個阿美族的青年他發生了一個從18米高的地方墜落那主要的原因是沒有繫安全帶那再來呢如果我們去看他的類型他是屬於非丁類而且是一次性的活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
42.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
59.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
所以這樣的一個樣態很特別但是在前天4月28日的國際工商日台北市政府前就聚集了一群人就是為了這件事而來 為什麼因為對於台北市勞動局的勞檢報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
61.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
77.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
和他們的家屬認為沒有還原真相那台北市的觀察局呢也沒有幫忙家屬爭取職災賠償所以這個部分我想問勞動部有沒有掌握到 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
80.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
102.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
跟委員報告這個整個案子一發生我們就有跟台北市的勞檢處這邊了解這個案情的狀況包括他一開始的停工到最後復工審查讓他可以復工這個過程中我們都有掌握到那後續的部分呢委員講的應該是他後續的有關於他的民事的賠償部分還有真相的還原呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
104.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
121.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
有真相才有賠償現在目前還是台北市勞檢處在做這個職業障礙的檢查報告我希望勞動部當然我知道六都的部分是由他們市府的勞動局但是我希望中央的勞動部也能夠介入慣性好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
121.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
140.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我覺得我們願意適時的在這個案子上面給予協助好謝謝部長的承擔那為什麼我也來提這件事就是因為113年勞動部特別訂定叫做墜落打擊年那當時目標訂定說希望能夠縮短縮小到68人 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
142.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
160.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
但是呢去年的年中其實就已經超過68人那從今年度的數據來看現在如果數據是4月15號截止的話呢墜落的有36人死亡看起來今年呢也很難達標 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
162.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
177.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
36是全应该是全产业是那就营造业是18人是那所以部长认为今年应该可以达成预定的目标我跟各位说明我不会说啊我们很有把握 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
177.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
196.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
可是我只能說我們會很努力的來進行這個目標的達成所以我們很需要檢討嘛對不對那今天我們看一下專報有提到墜落事故的檢討跟精進作為我比較關注的是我要提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
198.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
210.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個最弱的就是在我們重大職業災害當中最弱的就是佔48.9%就是一半那其中呢營造業是佔了68% |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
212.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
235.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以在這個部分我們可以看到像是電梯井的墜落施工架的墜落屋頂修繕的墜落它都是來自於沒有採取適當的防罪設施那其實我這幾年當立委這幾個類型我都有接觸處理過包括電梯井 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
236.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
256.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以在這裡我們可以看到跟其他幾個國家像南韓 美國 日本 新加坡我們的這個部分墜落的死亡值哉比例算是偏高的所以才會有墜落打擊年的一個訂定目標那我也要跟部長說您知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
257.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
266.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們目前全國五大最缺工的行業恰恰是原住民從事的前五大行業你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
268.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
288.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這是很有趣的一件事就是我們都是在最高的工地印價上最深的礦業最遠的遠洋漁業那原住民的勞工每千人的職災率不但長期以來是高於全國的平均也高於產業的平均而且在這邊從事營造業的原住民族人當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
289.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
308.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
有55%沒有收到過公安職災預防的資料而且遇上職災的原住民勞工當中高達五成沒有拿到過任何法定的職災賠償也就是我們職安法裡面所訂定的最低的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
308.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
328.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以這個很顯然就是資訊落差所以我想問勞動部有沒有掌握到原住民工人的職災率然後針對這種公安職災的預防有沒有想過用什麼管道去縮短資訊落差觸及到我們這些族人 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
330.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
356.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
跟委員報告確實這個原住民的部分他的從事的都是比較這個這個比較基層這個高風險的行業所以整個植栽的人數的部分跟植栽率目前我們都有掌握那至於說委員剛剛關心的怎麼樣促集這個從業人員這個從業的族人那除了我們辦訓練外我們在宣導部分也盡量去到部落裡面去做宣導或是在這個營造工地 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
358.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
382.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個他在部落周圍的營造工地他可能在那邊從事我們的宣導也會要觸及到那個地方我要提的是說因為我是生活在部落的人如果連我都察覺不到那就是表示可能沒有什麼大的效果所以我希望這個部分要盡量的再想辦法要怎麼樣去觸及到族人知道這些資訊你這邊提的第二個問題因為第一個問題是關於職債業部分當然我們就應該來做出統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
386.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
415.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
來掌握那第二個部分我是認為恐怕我們是希望跟園民會來做一些更進一步的合作因為園民會可能有比我們更多的管道來觸及到族人那我們可能有這方面的這個職災預防上面的資訊跟專業那也許園民會有相關的這個觸及到族人的通路那我們應該來跟他更合作我也來請我們的治安署來找園民會做一個專案的合作這樣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
415.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
436.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你看喔光是講勞基法第59條勞工如果遇到職業災害傷害或罹患職業病死亡他其實是可以拿到5個月平均工資作為喪葬費跟40個月平均工資的死亡補償其實我們很多族人根本連這個都不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
436.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
466.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那我們作為民意代表經常就是要幫助他們去協調去爭取那當然這個是最低保障那有時候我們可以爭取到更高的倍數可是在這個當中我們會發現到原來很多的族人其實他能夠找上民意代表幫忙還不錯可是更多的族人是他連找民意代表幫忙他都不知道他自己有什麼權益他都不知道故族也不告訴他所以呢我要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
466.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
488.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們部長再報告一下其實因為他們要規避災保法的通報的處罰跟職安法停工的處罰所以族人說他們有一些工地的潛規則受傷的時候不能叫救護車不能就近就醫不能去住院而且要說是交通意外 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
489.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
503.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
結果呢為了我們這些法律的一些處罰為了規避 雇主要規避結果本來是要保障變成更傷害所以部長你對這有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
505.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
525.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
跟文說明其實這些規避說實話他也不是針對原住民是我們在很多的地方看到職災勞工雇主可能都有這樣子的這種我覺得確實是一個潛規則式的要求那當然這是我們不能夠接受的所以我們現在當然也是希望來改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
526.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
554.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
職債勞工的包括的通報的資訊那也包括這個通報的資訊跟接下來他可能在保險上面的給付的請領之間這個包括他的程序我們也其實之前我們甚至開了一個工作坊那就希望來檢討這件事情所以從通報到後續的這個請領給付甚至是到重建的工作這裡面有很多的程序設計我想我們都正在檢討要來調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
555.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
584.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以部長您就是剛好提到我這樣講的當然一方面勞檢很重要但是仍然發生高比例的墜落事件顯示勞檢它還是有限難以預防那特別是勞檢人員到底夠不夠那如何補充那甚至是您剛剛提到的就是關於有沒有受教育訓練因為我們很清楚的可以看到有接受教育訓練跟沒有接受教育訓練差很多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
585.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
608.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
真的差很多啊這個很重要啊所以有什麼措施落實雇主與勞工之間的教育訓練這個非常重要看起來這是一個很有效的策略所以呢要著重所以特別最後就是本席就是希望要求說針對這個墜落打擊年我們要找到檢討之後有效的措施然後檢討修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
609.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
625.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那落實勞檢如果人力不足就要補充那也希望檢討現在的非丁類像我剛剛提的那個類子就是非丁類而且是一次性的活動希望就這個部分也要去檢討然後關於教育訓練還有職安資訊的傳播 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
628.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
644.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
要去想到有效可以觸及到雇主與勞工的那也希望儘速修正職安法去提高沒有落實安全措施的這些雇主要怎麼樣去處罰他跟委員說明其實我們有做了一個原住民族的職災的預防的資訊網 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
646.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
660.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
可是這個我們做好以後我是覺得恐怕我們還是需要跟剛剛說跟園民會來合作不然我們自己做也許就放在那邊其實很多人不一定去看到他或在上面了解到資訊這部分我們是可以來加強的好謝謝部長我們跟勞動部一起繼續努力謝謝主席 |