| IVOD_ID |
160820 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160820 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-30T12:33:38+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-30T12:42:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:09 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b6da7da99b942369e6ba0645caa8dac6385a4fd0f0fffa4998ab4b80bc74e67debd2ef2fddbaddb65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王義川 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:33:38 - 12:42:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部民用航空局局長何淑萍、交通部鐵道局局長楊正君、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司代理董事長伍勝園、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長鄭光遠、中華航空股份有限公司董事長高星潢及國家運輸安全調查委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「近期我國航空、鐵路運營安全事件之檢討與改善及臺鐵票價調整方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 我們請五次長然後高鐵鄭董事長還有鐵道局陳副局長鐵道局陳副局長 鄭董事長還有吳董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
20.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
29.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
委員好吳次長你是這一個高鐵公司的督導的次長是那高鐵公司針對4月14號T204班次的檢討報告你滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
35.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
52.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那天我有找他們來初步開過會當然它裡面大概還是在所謂的人員的問題當然我們希望能夠要求這個人員的一些疏失還是要想辦法你覺得問題是人員疏失嗎目前我看起來是這樣你也這樣認為對 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
54.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
你也這樣認為所以如果不是那個駕駛這個事情不會發生也不是說因為他當下的那個情境啊當下情境我了解他是因為他本來是在這之前他認為知道是要停車但是他到了以後沒有把訊號你這個回答很恐怖來鄭董事長這個發生這個事情啊這個駕駛的問題是這整個問題的關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
84.504 |
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我們的軌道運輸跟公路運輸最大的不同就是軌道運輸要大量的靠系統要大量的靠系統的防災機制我們不能依賴駕駛我們也不能依賴列車長不能說車子停下來列車長發現怎麼沒開然後列車長趕快按鈕說駕駛你怎麼沒開門這不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
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軌道運輸跟公路運輸最大的不同就是我們軌道運輸有大量的防呆機制系統非常的就是主要重要的但是人員要能夠按照他的這個SOP即使人員沒有按照SOP後面的防呆機制也要救回來即使人員沒有照SOP軌道運輸的防呆機制也要把他救回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
138.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
151.982 |
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所以鄭董事長你大概兩個禮拜前你說是因為那個駕駛啊這個 今天各位都沒有開停板橋的啦所以可能當這個板橋他開都沒停啊這句話更危險這句話更危險代表我們的高鐵的駕駛啊開車都憑經驗憑感覺高鐵捏 不是台鐵喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
164.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
173.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
台鐵一些老駕駛啊 開了開了就知道說 差不多要高五次啦車也要來 速度降到多一點 那就罷免停了 那沒問題啦高鐵不可以啦 高鐵絕對不行這也是國人相信高鐵 全世界相信高鐵的原因就是要靠大量的系統來阻止這個駕駛員的疏失啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
191.314 |
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是 跟委員報告 剛才講的那個什麼恍神啊或者怎麼樣 那個都是藉口啦其實最重要的是說 你要應該在每一個動作裡面你要做好你確實的SOP所以不要一直談這個是駕駛 這個很危險這個包括鐵道局五次長 那個交通部五次長這個邏輯也要想辦法調整好不好 這個再講一遍 軌道運輸跟公路運輸是差很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
218.419 |
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| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
第二個為什麼這個車子到了板橋站車子到了板橋站車子到了板橋站車子到了板橋站車子到了板橋站車子到了板橋站車子到了板橋站 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
235.56 |
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242.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個閉塞區間喔 這個閉塞區間他還沒 時間還沒到喔那不是說公車看不人就開車喔 不是喔高鐵是準時幾點發車就幾點發車喔這一個車站設定幾點幾分發車就是幾點幾分 也不能停車開喔裡面的轉車機一把它轉正綠燈就亮這個駕駛 現在你們的報告說這個駕駛啊看到綠燈 所以他就往前走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.54 |
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跟委員報告因為他會開啟這個路徑設定的話主要是因為我們的駕駛這個車子啊已經到了這個軌道區了已經到了這個區域裡面所以他會開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
277.452 |
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那輝遠講的沒錯其實我們這個駕駛他又換了一個疏忽就是說他照規定你要停下來要在開啟的時候你要跟行控中心確認你的時間你要自己要知道確認時間到了開車時間到了沒有那這個他沒有做他就自己就開了就換了另外一個疏忽搞清楚市長跟鐵道局搞清楚為什麼轉車期一轉正時間還沒到就讓你等這個事情一定要解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
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否則現在駕駛只要說我看到綠燈開軌道車的人看到綠燈我不往前走是我有事啊看到紅燈我不能走啊現在的設計是轉車機一轉正 必賽車前就打開一打開綠燈亮他就走了欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
324.139 |
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342.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這太危險 這個機制也要進行相關的調整我想這些機制從這個案子裡頭看得出來高鐵公司有非常大的改善空間因為避免 這個事件當然沒有發生事故可是這個事情就可以看得出來我們高鐵的駕駛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
344.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
363.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
每次行車之前啊 感覺因為 可能有經驗嗎開車都憑感覺啊 憑經驗啊我開到這裡就怎樣啊 但是國人會相信高鐵啊我們在學校教書啊 跟學生都是這樣講的嘛高鐵公司有很好的系統啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
364.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
用系統化來防止房呆即使駕駛打瞌睡即使駕駛弄錯了 即使駕駛怎樣那個房呆機制第一關 第二關 第三關都可以把它鎖下來這原來的系統設計是這樣我想這董事長在高雷公司也很久總經理 董事長 你這一個這一個期間你們也對外面 你對外面幹嘛是說有很多房呆機制的嘛這才是你們高安全性 可靠度很重要的原因嘛所以這一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
趕快把這個機制弄出來來鐵道局這個案子有沒有開罰報告委員這個案子我們已經成立專案小組要進行調查包含剛剛委員你們啟動專案小組是多久這案子發生多久啟動當天調查兩個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
418.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
447.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
現在有調查兩個現在還在收集資料包含剛剛委員高鐵公司今天早上發新聞稿今天要執行這條早上發新聞稿答案都跟大家講了你們現在報告還沒出來這個是高鐵公司的報告報導跟我們的調查報告是兩碼子不是你上班了這又過兩星期了嘛現在高鐵公司現在的改善策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
448.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
456.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
報告的第十一頁第一請列車長告訴駕駛停車第二駕駛收到列車長停車趕快停車這廢話嗎那如果這個列車長剛才在忙他不趕快跟這個駕駛說這個駕駛聽到列車長說說他也不理他車子繼續滾下去還是無解啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
470.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
492.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
其實你剛剛你有談到的那一個事情主要是耗資系統是不是應該會去做房貸所以這一個部分我們會就這個要啟動調查你們包括高鐵要調查最後我建議從高鐵的這個案子裡頭全台灣各捷運公司全台灣的捷運公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
493.305 |
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510.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
台鐵公司高鐵公司對這種防呆機制也許不同的軌道系統的等級不一樣設定的防呆機制因為有些防呆機要花很多錢設定的不一樣但是就現有的設備現有的機制各個捷運公司軌道公司在這件事情上 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
510.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
531.234 |
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要全面的避免即使駕駛犯錯即使駕駛沒有按照機制來做我們都能夠把他救回來把這台列車不要陷於危險這個鐵道局要自己趕快把這事情弄清楚不要到時候發生的時候我們說哪一年的4月就發生一次也在立完備詢也講得很好聽會什麼又來又發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
534.358 |
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546.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這件事情是鐵路監理的事情這個是鐵道局要負責也請我們五次長啊包括這個陳部長這個事情一定要盯緊因為只要軌道運輸發生事故都是非常嚴重的事故好 謝謝 |