| IVOD_ID |
160767 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160767 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-30T10:05:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-30T10:18:15+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b6da7da99b9423696d6423f5d87e10c58b6df88a6e7dffcac2100e055cb5940310bd954f519c80315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱鎮軍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:05:00 - 10:18:15 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、經濟部及內政部就「五一勞動節前夕，我國勞工職場預防職業災害及場(廠)墜落事故之檢討與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【4月30日及5月1日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席好我們請洪部長請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
30.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
主委好部長好部長我請問一下我們今天內政委員會正在協商制定紀念日及節日實施條例的草案嘛您支持嗎這個勞動節放假的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
33.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
58.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
勞動節 勞動節放假五一嘛對我想現在五一其實你個人支持嗎應該指的 因為五一勞工現在其實已經放假對 我知道指的應該是五一統一放吧對對對那五一統一放我想行政院其實已經有說了我們目標在下個年度希望就能夠來實施這個五一的統一放所以你也是支持嗎當然那我再接一下 我們台大剛剛我看陳昭之委員也有問這一題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
62.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
79.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
他們進行勞動節的出勤意願他們叫員工來填單那出勤表上原則上都是要上班根本看不到要補休還是要加班根本就沒有一個休假的問卷你覺得這個在勞動部的標準裡面算是合理的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
81.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
109.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
應該說其實我們有看了這個相關的書件書單那確實目前看如果按照這個書單來看的話他可能比較沒有辦法充分的讓老公朋友來表達他們的想法跟意願那部長那這個部分請你們再多加的注意好不好我們已經在4月28號已經有發函了然後就是發函給台北市政府那希望台北市政府真的這部分是應該去把它們理清楚然後給予相關的檢查好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
110.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
137.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那我再請教部長我們總統蔡院長在4月22號開了綠燈要你們開始送解凍案那按照部長您在社群發的文我們看到我們勞動部還有所屬機關在4月23日下午2點50分到下午6點01分這短短191分鐘總共發出了75件的解凍的電子文件那平均不到3分鐘就一份解凍報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
138.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
155.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那我就很納悶 這有三個可能第一個可能 我認為最有可能就是說其實這些早就寫好了 只是放著讓我們這一些你們政治議題的謠言素材都能夠累積差不多再送但是後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
157.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
183.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個因為最近被公務人員踢爆發現輿論扛不住了 昨天早上才開綠燈但是啦 你們不是先例文化部之前就有傳出內部的訊息很明確的就是先寫好壓著啦如果是這個那當然也就說明一件事情就是我們政府以達到政治目的為首要的目的說在乎人民的權益根本就把它放在一邊而已嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
209.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
但這是第一個可能那另外一個可能就是公務員加班趕監配合如果是這個我就要請教部長這個有沒有壓榨公務人員的這個嫌疑我問你再回答啦那最後一個就是濫魚充數濫血先遞貨再說並向委員會施壓意思說解凍案我已經送了那報告這個內容如果委員覺得不行我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
210.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
229.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
又開始要造謠就是說我們立委在阻擋這個解凍案如果是這樣的話我跟部長講就你們算盤還是打錯了那解凍案我們還是會專業的立委我們還是會照程序來審這個來審核啦那部長你覺得是哪一個好 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
230.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
259.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
跟邱委員說明實際的狀況都跟你剛剛講的三種情況是不同的那是什麼其實勞動部歷年來我們一直都是採用一案一文的方式來辦理解凍程序而且過去其實我們都是要求本部和相關的所屬的解凍案會在同一個日期裡面發文所以過去也都是大家同一天發文就是等到一聲令下沒有命令就不會發對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
275.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我跟委員說明過去就是要同一天發文那同一天發文的原因有幾個第一個是因為避免漏案的狀況第二個也希望能夠爭取跟確保到時候在立法院的時候是同一個時間來做審查因為你如果這個A案 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
一個月前發B案幾個月這個幾個後發其實零零散散的發很有可能到時候在立院的審查是分開的所以是希望到時候在立法院是這個同一時間來安排審查所以過去就是來要求是同一個日期的發文所以今年這個解凍計畫的發文方式其實跟往年都是相同的第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
319.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
其實今年我想委員知道因為今年的預算的審查波折比較多所以其實總統是到3月21號的時候才公布這個總預算那我們其實發文的時間大概在4月20幾號其實中間大概一個月左右的時間我想這個時間時程應該屬於正常的範圍我們並沒有拖延所以該回到該委員說的幾種狀況我跟委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
322.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們其實沒有刻意要壓軌甚至政治上的盤算你不要再講了啦因為我們也聽懂了我的意思是說你要真的聽懂我知道 我知道我的意思是說我希望不要有太多的政治的那個因素在裡面沒有不要太多政治的操作在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
340.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
347.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
但是我最不希望的就是看到你們這個壓榨公務人員或亂寫報告沒有這個事情那就下一題那112年的時候勞工的產檢價還有賠產價還有賠產減價預算編不夠只編了4200萬元左右當年度實際申請的7178萬裡面大概少了3000萬左右當時發現4200萬可能在7月就會用完 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
368.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
377.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
但是當時預算是沒有編購的卻沒有影響112年新手爸媽的權益申請還是非常的順利部長知道112年勞動部是怎麼做的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
379.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
401.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
當時就知道是當時是有跟舊寶做這個周轉但是這並不是一個常態的做法並不是過去有過這樣的周轉的案例未來就是想怎麼刪怎麼砍都沒有都是OK並不是這個狀況甚至那時候立法院也請我們檢討當時周轉的狀況所以周轉我們不能視為一個常態的正常的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
403.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
431.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
對 沒有出來 然後呢所以我們才認為並不是過去有發生過周轉所以現在怎麼刪怎麼動都是OK的 並不是這樣所以你們現在 你現在的意思就是說我們現在編的預算是想希望一次編購然後一次不要有不足的部分不要去跟其他的預算科目來借錢這樣的意思嗎預算的編類當然都是希望能夠編購很少會有希望預算編不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
433.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
444.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
或刻意變不夠啊對啊 112年就不夠啦對 當年是有那個狀況所以後來其實用周轉可是這個周轉其實包括立法院的預算中心也叫我們要檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
446.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
473.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
也叫我們要檢討所以我們不把因為可以周轉所以我預算想怎麼編就怎麼編想怎麼刪就怎麼刪想怎麼動就怎麼動並不是這樣子的就算過去有過這樣子的做法可是那個並不是該設定為的常態正常的常態所以我希望就是說你們一次把這個該用的錢因為你們的基礎是應該是以去年的這個金額來做一個衡量嘛對不對那我在想這個補助總共七天 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
474.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
500.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第一天到第五天的這個薪資是我們僱主付的嘛然後第六第七是跟我們勞動部補助來申請那僱主當然是要先墊付對不對然後墊付完了之後才跟來請款然後原則上七天的錢僱主要給完新手爸媽以後才能夠跟勞動部來請款所以新手爸媽的錢這個僱主早就付了剩下就是應該是僱主跟我們勞動部的關係嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
502.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
519.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
對不對 是勞動部跟僱主的事情因為僱主已經先出了嘛跟委員說明這個不能這樣看因為僱主也是先知道第六天跟第七天勞動部會給予補助所以如果第六天跟第七天勞動部的薪資補助的錢卡住的話也很有可能會影響僱主 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
522.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
540.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
讓勞工去做產檢架或賠償檢架的意願所以這是聯動的關係並不是說他是來他會先付然後這邊勞工跟僱主之間的關係並不是這樣子看的他是先 僱主是先出嘛你講的意思當然是說你希望說這筆錢 這筆預算都是放這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
542.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
570.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
錢是夠的嘛 對不對你不希望說不夠的時候那我們在之前我們講到說我們今年編了八千 九千八千五百四十萬嘛 對不對然後你們把九千七百一十四萬的那個整個預算是九千七百一十四萬嘛刪了八百萬不是我們刪的 是我不是說你刪的對我沒有出來我是我們刪的沒錯然後總共 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
571.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
589.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
剪下來的話 我們大概還有七千多萬嘛 對不對三除八百萬 然後凍結將近兩千萬兩千萬凍結先不講 三除歸三除嘛三除八百萬 然後凍結將近兩千萬對啊 那剪下來是不是還有八千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
590.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
615.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
七千七百四十萬跟委員說明原本九千多萬裡面有部分是剛才說的這個薪資補貼對 其他的部分沒錯那其他部署其實我們也要辦理很多性評你現在是把九千七百一十四萬然後三個八百萬放在統一欄裡面嘛那這個不管不是 還有包括兩千萬的凍結啊對 你都是放在統一欄嘛 對不對那個委員整個項目是九千多萬對 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
620.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
644.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那刪了八百萬動了兩千多萬這加起來就已經接近大概兩千七百多萬兩千八百萬還有大概七千萬左右所以這個扣掉的影響其實都超過原本我們編列八千多萬但是你產檢價相關的你凍結不能這樣算啊對不對因為你一定要執行到他當初我跟你講他為什麼會跟你凍結你知道嗎為什麼會凍結你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
649.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
670.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個我還可以再提醒對當初就是我幫你複習一下就是為什麼被凍結20%原因就是因為近五年違反勞基法的案件有3.5萬件勞動部沒有善盡監督的責任那裡面特別提出來就是說高工時的問題僱主延長勞工工時但是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
672.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
684.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
報復加班費再來就是職場性騷擾防範效果不彰長期都有變預算但是問題一堆他們是希望你們把這事情做好所以才會去凍結預算凍結不等於刪除你懂嗎凍結不等於刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
687.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
701.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
但是還是會在預算的執行上面產生的不確定性他只是不確定其實在以前我們以往的慣例裡面所有有凍結的預算如果都是照你這種邏輯的話那大家都不是都不用做事 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
702.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
718.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
如果凍結就一定可以用的話我想從貴院的角度來說凍結就不用凍結凍結當然是在預算執行上面產生不確定性解凍的條件有好幾種希望你提出報告或者是說你已經執行到幾趴之後我們再來提凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
720.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
735.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
對不對 凍結是事實凍結會對預算的執行產生不確定性也是事實我沒有講說它不是事實我現在講的是事實沒錯但是如果以往的我們的預算案所有的預算案的凍結案來講是不是因為你執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
736.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
754.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
的效果跟沒有達到預期的效果或者是說我們希望我們這個單位再提出新的一個辦法來改進這些你只要提報告出來一般都會解凍這個案子裡面他的解凍結的理由坦白說他講的也不是產檢價跟賠產檢價的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
758.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
774.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
他講的是跟其他的勞基法其他的事情這也是讓我們覺得困惑的事情說如果是我們在產檢架、賠產檢架過去有執行不妥當的地方那你在這個案子裡面做出指教跟批評要我們把產檢架跟賠產檢架的執行做得更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
774.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
792.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那這個當然我們會來接受因為產檢加賠償減價 至於有問題可是你拉了一個別的事情來凍結產檢加跟賠償減價讓新手的爸媽得到幫助的機會可能產生很多不確定性那你 這個案子你提解凍了沒有我們都提了 我們都送了好 那我們到時候再來審啦謝謝好 謝謝 |