| IVOD_ID |
160727 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160727 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-29T11:35:09+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-29T11:51:10+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5e3950a5df8d034b6bea219985619159066821ab1e45083e6de342268043fcb60911e5930497b7265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:35:09 - 11:51:10 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。二、4月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、4月29日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席韓院長麻煩請行政院左院長麻煩再請左院長備詢現在因為這個美國的關稅問題所以我認為這個是美中貿易戰爭裡面的一個一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
37.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
56.983 |
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延伸然後現在是進入緊鑼密鼓的階段但是延伸到台灣這邊來的話我覺得我們跟台美的關稅最重要的問題其實不是在關稅的本身我個人認為是在解決貿易順差是一個很大的課題但是這個貿易順差的這個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
60.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
73.758 |
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美國的統計跟我們台灣的統計好像不太一樣一邊是749億一邊是600多億的美金那這個您知道這個中間這個數據的差距它的原因是什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
75.526 |
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| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
他算出來是1114億美方的數字是1114億我是意思說美方的統計我們對台灣對他的貿易順差是749去年但是台灣自己本身原來的統計是600多那中間將近落差了100多億那100多億這個數字上面美國的看法跟我們的看法不一樣他要產生這個差距的原因是在哪裡多少有一些計算的項目的不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
102.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
128.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
還有一些可能是轉口的問題我覺得這裡面國際貿易的原理其實國際貿易原理它是追求平衡所以我們如果是對人家順差很大的國家他如果想辦法去解決貿易之間順差的問題上一次我有跟您提過加大對美國的採購然後包括天然氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
130.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
155.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
原油啊 還包括這個大宗物資 黃小玉然後再加上可能再加上我們的軍事採購總是這個可以減少貿易順差的部分吧上次提過我想這個目前也台灣也目前也是正在這樣做大採購跟投資以及談判關稅這個都是目前雙方在進行磋商的重要的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
156.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
165.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
對 那我覺得這個才是真正解決問題的重要核心那當然賴總統所提的說如果台灣的廠商可以的話去 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
166.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
186.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
自己算起來覺得可以的話希望能有去美國這個投資的機會那這個當然會接觸到這個金融帳上面的另外一個問題是說我們如果美國另外一個希望那是希望製造業能夠回到美國那我們如果台灣的廠商去美國投資在美國產生的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
188.36 |
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198.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
製造業的聚落跟台灣這邊的廠商搭配這是一個不錯的看法將來在對美國的順差上面有可能可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
227.11 |
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可以比較減少因為我們就不用輸出全部的成品我們辦成品或是零件然後在美國這邊的製造商在那邊投資在那邊製造在美國銷售所以那個差距會有一些在美國投資在美國設廠市場就是以美國那在台灣的設廠台灣的製造就是以全世界為市場這樣能不能取代關稅上的一些衝擊對然後我就是要現在要跟你談一個我認為蠻重要的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
229.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
255.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
就是因為現在美國對於中國不遵守國際貿易規則所以到現在對於中國的產品他加了很高的關稅另外一點他要嚴防各地幫中國的產品洗產地我了解美國的定義只要你的原料半成品有35%是從中國來的他就認為你這是中國的產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
259.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
283.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那問題是台灣本身對於台灣製造的定義是這樣喔我無論原料從哪裡來我只要在台灣加值超過35%我就認為這是Made in Taiwan那你不覺得這中間有一種中途嗎我舉一個例子如果當然這個例子是比較極端我的原料跟零件50%從中國來 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
313.86 |
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台灣製造價值50%這個產品出口到美國在美國的定義這是中國的產品但台灣本身的定義這個是made in Taiwan所以這正好就進入了美國說那你台灣就是在幫中國洗產地所以關於美國對於中國製造以及台灣對台灣製造非中國製造這中間的定義要如何調和 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
315.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
341.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我覺得這是一個很大的課題這不知道你有什麼看法將來在談判過程當中我們都要提出這樣的數據來紀律力爭以國內的市場的行為跟美國的認知來做一個和平我希望能夠以我們現在國內的狀況來當作我們談判的起點那問題是因為美國這個35%中國的原料跟零件他是對全世界的標準不是只有對台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
343.103 |
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356.578 |
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那你台灣在這個標準上沒有去跟人家談說我的台灣的價值現在是35那假設你要往上抬美國要求你往上抬你說40 45這個都不符合美國現在對中國製產品的這個定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
360.742 |
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387.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
說明一下委員確實這個部分要注意這個問題然後剛剛院長已經說在談判的時候會提出來這個另外呢我們現在在談判的過程中已經談到這個了嗎另外還有一個就是因為進口的原產地在進口的時候是由進口國的海關來認定所以他們有它相關的一些規定那在我們這邊部分我們經濟部會跟美方去談之外還有一個就是有一個預審機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
388.965 |
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414.435 |
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也就是說我們這邊的出口廠商可以向美方的海關申請預審也就是說我這邊出口MIT的標示是不是符合你這邊的符合他們可以認定這個是台灣是原產地這是一個預審機制進入個案的認定部長你這個講法在委員會都談過了但是我不能夠滿意的地方在哪裡呢你這個就是我就要舉一個例子啊我台灣的廠商假設我是一個遵守台灣法令的廠商我的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
416.001 |
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428.229 |
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在台灣的價值就超過50%啊所以依照我的定義完全依照法令來我就是Made in Taiwan啊那我假設我這個Made in Taiwan的產品我出口到美國去 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
429.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
449.84 |
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那美國國家的定義對全世界是一樣的啊他認為你這個是中國的產品啊那這不就是我剛剛講的正好熱入說就確切的認定就是台灣在幫中國洗產地嗎那你說我這個預審我個案那個是要繳多少稅金的問題啊我現在是跟你講說這個定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
452.011 |
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458.555 |
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如果我們跟美國之間的利益是有這麼大的差距的話我們很容易落入這樣子的一個情境這樣一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
482.651 |
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508.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以有可能我一個台灣的廠商我做一樣的東西我的原料來源一樣我出口的對象如果不是美國是made in Taiwan我出口的對象如果是美國的話變成made in China那請問我們如果建立台灣made in Taiwan MIT的這樣子的在國際之間的我們要打品牌要讓人家知道我們這是高價值的產品啊我跟你說川普總統我一再講他就是要改變這個貿易規則嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
511.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
529.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你一直跟我講說拿這個世界的貿易規則就是35%的價值就可以算那一國的產品你沒有辦法拿這個標準去要求美國啊所以我現在是問你說美國跟這個這樣子中間的落差跟台灣中間的這個落差如果不趕快調整的話我覺得台灣很危險耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
530.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
535.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以我們就是透過談判的機制希望把雙方不同的標準數據能夠把它做一個對齊或者是做一個如何的改進我剛剛的意思是說WTO的那個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
555.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
578.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為美國要對付中國中國不遵守WTO的規範在很多地方啦所以美國要改變那個貿易規則啦現在川普就是擺明了在改變這個貿易規則啊所以我們台灣要怎麼樣子處理這個是我覺得這是很重要的一環另外像越南這一次也是一個美國要 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
580.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
590.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
處理的一個幫中國洗產地的一個很大的目標國家就越南前兩天就公佈了他要求整個供應鏈製造產品的供應鏈的履歷 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
593.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
612.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
要清楚的呈現出來我覺得他山之石可以說錯台灣要不要要求這些零件原料的履歷讓這個商品到底他是從哪一些國家來的多少成分如何組成的也清清楚楚這個你們有可以考慮嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
613.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
632.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們也要求提供產地證明等等這只有產地證明 它是產品的履歷所有的產品的履歷我們現在農產品有履歷嘛 對不對哪一個農民在哪一塊地上面種出來有履歷嘛它現在越南為了要避免美國對付它越南現在採取要求所有它的產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
633.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
647.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
都要有履歷包括哪一個零件假設他的零件是從台灣的哪一個廠商來的啊這個裡面搞不好他這個產品總共有幾十樣零件他每一樣零件從哪裡來從哪一個工廠製造出來他都要求喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
648.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
677.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
他要求這麼嚴喔 他很怕美國很高的關稅對付他我們對違規轉運的 我們設了幾道關卡做得很不好 我也問過他啦六年來喔 在整個加工貿易在自由貿易區 總共境內關外的 總共才查了幾件從海關到經濟部 以前做得不夠嚴謹 現在我們一定強烈的要求否則我們沒有辦法在這波世界貿易重組當中 台灣站得住腳 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
678.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
704.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以你說能夠加強什麼呢到時候你就是拿出成績給我們看吧我相信台灣有很多產品我個人相信是你過去稽查上面沒有不夠嚴謹產生漏洞的應該是會有一些我們這次會更加強的而且有相關的經濟措施那也會提高在自貿港區裡面的一些扒環那再延伸的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
706.823 |
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735.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
就是說中國跟美國之間這樣子的狀況之下中國的經濟是非常的嚴峻那台灣過去銀行都有統計曝險嘛有一套標準但是那個曝險的統計都是有統計到國有銀行包括公營的跟民營的但是是有一些漏洩統計的因為那個曝險的金額遠不止這樣舉個例子國有銀行在中國的紙行 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
736.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
756.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
沒有統計再來就是有一些影子銀行租賃公司或是做一些分級付款買賣等等所謂的曝險以前的定義比較狹窄中國的經濟日益嚴峻我們要確確的掌握詳細的數字之後才會有辦法擬定我們的政策對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
757.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
785.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這部分請金管會主委說明一下如何加強其實我們對紙行是有掌控的資料都有只是說我們過去在計算曝險的時候是從法律關係來計算我們已經開始從實質的曝險的角度去調整我們計算的方式我想這細節部分可以跟委員再做說明我想這個我們都有全盤的掌握那什麼時候可以提供比較完整的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
785.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
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就是我們對外因為牽涉到法令的部分我們對外還是一樣比如公佈的這個曝險比例還是按照我們現有的法規的內容但是呢我們有針對實質的比如說它的實質的曝險我們用更換一套計算的公式再重新來審視這件事情我想會更精準的看到這些內容主委我想齁我要提這件事情是為了要預先 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
808.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
833.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
大家要掌握詳細的資料將來的政策擬定上才不會比較能夠比較接近我們需要達到的目的如果我們統計的數據跟實質的差距差很大的話那個統計意義就不大所以希望這方面能夠加強你願意能夠加強的話那是很好那我們就來努力但是我要提醒一點我認為香港是不是也要把它計算進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
834.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
861.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
因為這一次美國對中國的貿易裡面他沒有把香港單獨作為一個關稅領域他就直接把它算到中國裡面來所以香港現在的國際地位在美國現在的政策上面它已經是中國的一個城市所以我們去計算普選的時候我們要知道你過去的計算方法只有中國不包括香港 香港你是把它獨立出來假設美國的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
862.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
889.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
是這樣他對關稅的部分是這樣他未來其他的部分也慢慢會跟進這個其實我以前的咨詢就已經談過了說因為香港最嚴重的地方是可能會被踢出這個貨幣換算的機制那現在一步一步來了切香腸一刀一刀再切最後會出現結論嘛所以對香港的曝險你如果沒有改弦更張還是把它跟中國分開計算的話我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
892.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
908.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這個在變動的數據上可能會跟不上這個跟委員說明一下其實我們港澳跟大陸地區都有分開都有完整的數據這沒有問題我知道美國的政策你聽美國的政策把香港當作中國的一個城市嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
909.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
926.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
如果我們把香港也當作中國一個城市假設我們跟著美國的政策走的時候你那個對中國的普選的資料數字就會天差地啊搞不好你銀行規定那個禁止的百分之百有沒有辦法能不能遵守這個都不清楚啊其實我們這個都有在按照那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
951.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
955.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好,谢谢吴秉瑞委员的资讯,谢谢卓院长,各部会首长的备选,谢谢。 |