| IVOD_ID |
160722 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160722 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-29T09:49:22+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-29T10:04:55+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5e3950a5df8d034b25423c3d77d42ba5066821ab1e45083e8c72a8809be13c399b03abd11ba7a7725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳玉珍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:49:22 - 10:04:55 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。二、4月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、4月29日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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我們有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢陳委員好好 院長早謝謝您今年到我們金門去關心謝謝委員那我們都知道基礎建設很重要尤其這個水和電的部分是所有地區發展的一個基本的這個要素我想請問我們今天是要來討論我們金門的這個用水問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
58.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
最近有媒體報導說大陸福建打算要建金門的第二供水通道形成雙水源的供水體系我們看到經濟部的水利署有做相關的回應他是說目前金門的水源充足自由水源達到75%以上所以沒有興建就是覺得大陸沒有興建第二供水第二通道的需求這個只是大陸單方面提出的構想院長這是我們行政院的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
61.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
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我剛問的這個問題,是我們行政院,你們經濟部回答,就是你們行政院的地方現在金門每日用水量2.6萬,那麼它的供水能力達到3.7萬那其中有一部分當然是引水進來的,但有一部分是海淡我們是自由水源75%是嗎好像沒這麼多吧好像沒有這麼多吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.745 |
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這是你們的回答這是經濟部的回答水利使用金的目前水源充足自由水源達75%所以大陸沒有必要興建第二供水通道這是經貨回答所以我們自由水源是75% |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
98.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
117.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
接近吧好來院長我想那我要問一下院長到底聊不聊金門公園你說現在金門每天用水是2.6嘛那可以公水等於有3點2.6嘛每一天2.6立方米嘛2.6萬立方米每一日啦那我們自由水有3.7立方米院長這您有回答嗎這是你剛剛回答我說院長院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
121.533 |
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| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
供水能力是每天3.7萬啊需要的水只要2.6萬 所以不缺水就對了飲水進來的有2萬左右吧是 飲水是哪裡的 是自由水源喔跟大陸水進來叫自由的嗎那總統是不是前一陣子剛3月13號剛說中國大陸是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
143.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
169.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
境外敵對勢力嘛所以跟境外敵對勢力給我們水叫做我們的自由水源喔你們現在的對大陸的定義怎麼這麼混亂啊境外敵對勢力是說他要建基一直在侵擾國家所以那時候是境外敵對勢力但他共水的時候他就不是境外敵對勢力了是吧共水是跟金門地區雙方之間長期以來的一個那共水是這時候他就不變成境外敵對勢力了 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
170.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
190.99 |
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共水是買的吧?是買的沒錯,但是水是他的水,他也可以不賣嘛不是送的,對是買的沒錯是我們跟他簽訂一個合約長期再跟他賣每一天我們需要2.6萬噸的水,其中有2萬多噸從中國大陸來嘛是從那個水管過來嘛,我們當然跟他付費買啦是民生問題啦是民生問題,所以這個時候他就不是境外敵對實體這個意思嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
192.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
217.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
但是這個同時是存在它的間接一直在侵擾台灣對台灣的國家安全一直有威脅沒問題沒問題那個部分你就說它是境外敵對勢力它供水的時候它是不是我們境外敵對勢力這是一個契約行為是一個契約行為這時候那這時候它算是我們的敵對勢力嗎在供水的時候它是一個契約對象所以這時候它是契約對象不是境外敵對勢力喔不是喔契約對象也可以做很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
218.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
232.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
境外敵對勢力也可以做很多商業行為啊我只要你這個清楚就好了我們也可以跟境外敵對勢力做很多商業的行為啦是這樣子嗎總統說要拖中入北你有沒有違反總統的意思我再次強調我們從以前的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
238.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
266.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
西進南向東拓現在是合作陸北不反對我說的是拖中所以不是陸北拖中是脫離整個中國在經濟上對我們的威脅威脅所以他如果願意給我們東西就沒關係如果要威脅我們就不行他如果當作我們也是一個善意的契約對象就不應該對我們有敵意的軍機有我幫你解釋啦他如果對我們有善意把我們當作善意的契約對象就不應該用軍機將惡意的相向 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
267.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
290.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我現在就要跟你討論水因為我的目的不是要跟你爭辯總統說這個好不好反正這是總統的說法也沒有經過立法院大家同意反正是他的政策方向他執政者方向我不是在挑戰這個我是要跟你討論下面的問題就是說當他是一個境外敵對世界的時候他現在是有善意的跟我們共水那我們也要考慮到有一天他可能不會跟我們共水這個也是有可能發生對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
291.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
318.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
可能的惡意不只這些就是我先就金門地區來講嘛我先不要管到台灣島這邊來講金門地區嘛如果說他有山葉花要跟我們供水那這樣很好嘛你覺得反正這個是好的一個經濟行為也是可以的嘛可以嘛 對吧剛剛你的說法是這樣子啦我們不能排除他有任何的惡意對 他不排除嘛 對啊所以那如果這樣講供電也是可以的啊金門現在電也虧損很大供電也應該要可以啊供水既然可行供電怎麼不可行呢那我們要在 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
319.315 |
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340.913 |
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安全能夠掌握的狀況之下當然一樣 水也是一樣 水電其實是一樣所以供電理論上也應該有可行我知道金門對中國大陸的一些依賴度是有的那我們也承認這個事實但是如果對方也承認這個事實就應該善意的對待我們有有有 很善意也不用擔心金門的路客都有到金門來對金門經濟幫助很大那我想請問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
346.357 |
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370.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我不是要跟你討論路口,我要跟你討論水電所以在這個情況下,為了國安考慮,我要跟你討論的是在我們中華民國,我們台灣地區可以做什麼它現在供水,我們現在水百分之八十都是大陸來的,每一天我們也不排除哪一天突然兩岸的局勢會有變化所以我要跟您討論的是金門地區供水的自由水源是不是應該要增加更強一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
371.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
395.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我舉一個例子來講 你看喔 同樣是離島地區金門 澎湖 馬祖這三個地區澎湖它的海淡水 就佔它的水源的百分之八十一就是它的水大概百分之八十一是用海水淡化 鹽水淡化在馬祖是百分之六十七那金門的海淡廠的人力 每一天只有大概一千兩百噸就是零點五 百分之零點五 千分之五 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
395.999 |
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410.648 |
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我的意思就是說當然我們大部分的水現在都是從大陸來那我們當然也不排除啊站在政府有這個果然考慮的疑慮下當然如果好的方面我們希望連電也給他供嘛因為我們也可以減少虧損嘛我們也是很願意啊當然我知道現在政策可能如果照 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
411.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
426.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
院長剛剛說法只要是一個良善的企業行為接受那供電應該也要可以考慮嘛如果是往這個方向發展那但是 現在如果我不跟你討論如果往壞的方向發展那我們的水是不是也應該要自己自主的能力要增加嘛這個沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
427.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
429.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如果所有金門的國人都這麼認為的話我們願意重新考量把海水氮化的設施去設置 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
450.619 |
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460.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
是 我不認同 但是我覺得我們要做準備啊妳認為就是說中國他一定會切斷妳嘛我不覺得他一定會切斷我啊 但是我要做準備啊我不這樣認為我們本來的回應是說跟你一樣說認為他不會來這個切斷但是還是要做準備啊但是妳現在認為他會切斷嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
468.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
490.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
沒有說他會切斷 我不認為他會 我跟你講 我的立場我的意思就是說如果我們也贊成委員你的這個主張說他會切斷我們的水所以我們要未雨綢繆來做海水單位 這個我們同意好 我的意思就是說我是贊成經濟部說的說因為你們現在說自由水是75%這是在呼嚨百姓嘛因為事實上80%是大陸來的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
492.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
511.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
他賣給我們水不是我們的自由水源嘛但是我不在乎是有萬一啊就像我覺得兩岸以前在馬英九時代都不會打仗現在到了那種每天在這樣說什麼敵對勢力什麼會不會打仗 連我自己都覺得不一定啊我都覺得說不定有可能打仗這是我的認知啊現在他每天飛機來一趟 每天軍艦來一邊晃 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
515.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
522.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個擔心是正確的你的擔心是正確的所以我們認為我們認為你的擔心是正確的你終於發現他應該是敵外這個是總統的認知所以我們也願意你的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
531.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
551.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我會願意來評估我的擔心是來自於什麼 我跟您說明我擔心來自因為我看到他軍機每天在那邊鬧 軍機在那邊走我們的政府一點能力都沒有 我的擔心在這裡因為他已經飛到我們的天空 我們政府都還沒有辦法把他打下來這就是我的擔心所以你主張打下來已經開到了我們過的那個中線我們到連中線都沒有了 這就是我的擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
552.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
565.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我支持啊 只要飛我們領空就應該打下來那在金門上面飛的我們要不要先打下來如果專業領空就應該做這就是保衛中華民國主義的做法 我當然支持我當然支持 所以我跟你講我們的政府沒有連這樣做才讓我擔心我們終於有共識了 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
567.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
592.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以我們來講供水的部分因為今天不是國防是經濟的部分所以海淡的部分我支持政府因為政府既然整個政策這樣我們跟著這個政策走因為我原先覺得兩岸和平這樣最好它可以供水我們也減少虧損兩岸和平往來也很好既然政府已經把它定位為一個境外敵對市域那我們也要支持政府的政策支持政府的政策說好那水的部分也沒有75%是自由的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
593.408 |
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617.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
幾乎全部都是刀輪我們的海淡的部分事實上要加強我們也非常擔心你終於能夠支持說我們自己來供應我們支持在金門所有地方都可以自給自足不是只有水我們也希望電可以自給自足當然台電這個部分對金門幫助很大我們也很感謝但是水的部分是部長你是不是海淡廠幫我們多增加幾座我們會深入的評估如果委員支持的話我們深入評估我支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
618.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
630.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
馬祖五座 彭峰十五座 金門才兩座而且金門只能占0.12 講難聽一點如果真的兩岸局勢變差我當然不希望金門走到那一步 我也想應該不會但是萬一萬一萬一對 你終於發現那個情勢已經變差了 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
632.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
642.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
形勢變差因為我們政府施政不力啦不然以前不是這樣子我們現在達成一個結論你們願意支持金門做海蛋多做一點讓他的自給力變高嘛這沒問題嘛好謝謝來那個國發會我想請問國發會這個主委之前這個謝謝金議部長這個趕快做海蛋廠多做一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
655.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
680.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
當然真的 最好大陸可以不用共水 這也是很好主委沒有來喔 高副主委這個之前這個民進黨委員有說 說今年啦什麼這個114年度離島基金的預算 抓到大幅三減啦三減五千多萬啦 就是說 那我想請問副主委啦我們像本期金門立委陳怡貞跟馬祖烈陳怡貞 我們有三離島基金嗎我們有三五千多萬的離島基金嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
685.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
702.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我們有刪除嗎?我們有提案刪除嗎?有刪除我們有提案嗎?你說的我們有刪除立法監測基金嗎?五千多萬嗎?我跟陳雪生有提這個案子嗎?那個委員沒有吧我沒有嘛對不對你們說是統三啦原始提案跟統三 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
704.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
711.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
沒有3啦 你說的是統3我知道 因為統36%嘛所以你們就把說那個6%等於是5000多萬就灌在陳雪生跟陳玉珍的頭上好 沒關係 統3那你覺得統3的話 就是民進黨立委說這樣沒有顧及鄉親的權益好 統3 我們來看一下好不好今年因為有在野黨多數嘛所以你們就把在野黨統3多好 灌在我們身上好 那我們來看這樣說法公不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
727.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
745.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
112年113年之前那時候民進黨是多數這沒疑問在立法院是絕對多數高副主委也知道雖然所言長不知道高副主委也知道多數那時候每年都統三百分之六這個設施費統三百分之六是歷年來的固定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
746.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
764.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
每一年就是在這個部分統三百分之六不管是哪一黨是多數在立法院每一年的設備與投資都是統三百分之六是每一年審查總預算都會刪的統三的項目啊所以如果按照劉主委說今年離島金被刪五千多萬就是我們國民黨立委在刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
765.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
783.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
歷年的統三最後都會在草野協商跟行政院一家一家拔到一個統三的項目是是是我每年都有參加草野協商報告院長一年是沒有這樣做的報告院長最後的答案我講的是答案不是過程最後的過程112年跟113年也都是統三的6%的這個設備與投資費 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
786.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
790.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那最多有達成協議啊沒有 今年沒有達成協議而且很多其中在特定機關 特定項目不能留用我現在講的只有針對離島基金的這一項我沒有在講其他 我講的就是這一項那也是統三啊 但是要在哪裡我們並不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
806.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
825.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
跟往年一樣所以如果你今年如果你說今年這張山就是陳玉珍陳玄不重視這個離島建設刪除離島基金如果你要這樣灌在我們頭上那你要跟我說以前每一年民進黨多數已經有八年了都不重視離島建設不重視離島基金因為每一年都統山民進黨那時候都是多數國會都是多數這樣就沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
827.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
848.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
確實以前有達到協議 今年是沒有的不管你有沒有達協議你看 今年有沒有達協議 結果都還一樣啊所以 副主委你應該主張離島基金不能刪 統刪不能刪離島基金我當然主張不能刪 但是每一年都統刪那以前民進黨是不是也就在刪啊也就不注重離島權益呢因為最後都有達成協議 該刪哪裡該刪哪個項目 哪些科目都有達成協議啊副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
855.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
871.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
你們這個 院長你們這個只要辦那個說謊喔老百姓喔 說謊就非常 辦得很快我們沒有說謊半夜 怎麼沒說謊你們說這樣是我們 以前好 你沒說謊那以前是不是民進黨就是那你是不是要對以前民進黨三這樣子六趴的離島建設基金來對不起離島人民來道歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
872.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
885.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
以前該刪哪裡 兩院都有達成協議那所以以前刪這個也是刪6%就不應該道歉嗎所以民進黨刪了就不用道歉啊這次國民黨多數刪了就應該道歉喔我們連要刪哪裡都不知道要我們自己刪636億 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
887.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
915.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這個就是給你們更大的權利啊讓你們知道哪些是比較不需要做的給你們權利讓你們決定哪些部會做得好哪些單位做得好不用刪哪些單位做得不好浪費的刪嘛這是對你們好啊連善意都看不出來你連善意而已都看不出來所以你們以前的三個離島基金統三六趴今年也是一樣並沒有多刪這是往年的慣例所以國發會的主委不應該說謊他今天沒有來 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
918.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
926.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好,谢谢陈宇峥委员咨询,谢谢主任长,各部会首长的背景,谢谢。接下来请马文君委员咨询,刘许廷委员请准备。 |