| IVOD_ID |
160622 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160622 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-24T10:29:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-24T10:46:36+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:53 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5e1f7c3e1748c6e554c06a7cb755e0a9aab39e7ea9331c7ec2be5dfb0591b1bffaaab92e9403bad85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
莊瑞雄 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:29:43 - 10:46:36 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查
（一）委員羅智強等25人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二條文修正草案」案。
二、審查委員陳培瑜等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案。
三、審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百四十九條及第四百五十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
四、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百四十一條條文修正草案」案。
【僅進行詢答】） |
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SPEAKER_04 |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
8.576 |
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謝謝張偉,有請我們司法院副秘書長還有我們服務部的黃次長麻煩副秘書長移民署還有海巡署都有到,請上來一下好不好我想先請教黃次長,你跟我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
47.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這個王富密其實都食物界非常有經驗的人但是我今天要特別來請教就是說最近竹北健身教練這個案子我相信劣童案你們應該很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
49.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
67.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
又跑掉了 這本來在2月5號啊 說裁定300萬交保那3月份的時候啊 發現沒有到庭以後 發現已經棄保潛逃我有一個很大的一個感慨啦 就是說法院在做這樣子的 在這種接押庭的時候啊一般來講的話 應該都會通知檢察官立庭嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
72.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
88.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
市長不是這樣子嗎監察庭法律沒有規定必須要通知檢察官來力挺我們陷阱法上沒有規定是那所以說檢察官也未必會到實務上其實檢察官都會力挺如果有通知我們應該會到不通知的案例多不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
103.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
不通知檢察官他就沒有辦法,也許他主動知道當然可以,也許他不知道他可能就沒有辦法倒庭所以這個案子就怪啦這個案子就變成說在接家庭的時候檢察官沒有立庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
105.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
130.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那法院他當然他有這個權利說這個預知被告多少金額來做交保嘛那這個案子是三百萬嘛我們就不談個案啦就說像這種案子三百萬交保以後那人跑掉啦到最後你說通知開庭的時候人跑掉啦那檢察官再去講說啊我沒有收到這個裁定啊所以我無從抗告啊那你會覺得這樣檢察官的這樣子抗辯的講法說法通嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
132.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
157.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
跟委員報告啦我們對法院的強制處分他基本上是透過抗告制度去救濟嘛那抗告當然檢察官要抗告全體他要審酌抗告有沒有抗告有沒有裁定書或裁定書的理由他才有辦法提起抗告嘛那如果說法檢察官他沒有收到裁定書雖然這個裁定書對他宣示他可以提起抗告但畢竟沒有理由對檢察官來講他事實上他是事實上他的無從提起 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
158.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
175.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你這樣講也未必是一個全貌實務上哪是這樣 實務上有時候常常這個當庭法官就預支多少錢 被告多少錢 交保以後你檢察官沒有收到裁定書 你知道了以後其實抗告跟上訴一樣也不一定要具體理由我先不付理由我都可以抗告啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
176.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
197.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那跟那個前提是檢察官他有到場來執行公訴的前提之下所以這個案子又神不知鬼不覺檢察官又不知道啦人就這樣被給放走了那當然也未必講說法官他主觀上就是刻意要去放人也許他整個事實他認為是300萬交保本來就是很合理的啊他要跑到也不知道啊但重點我為什麼要這樣問呢就是跟前面啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
200.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
226.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
又發生一個中文字案嘛本來就是一個科技監控那現在就變成也是說檢察官沒有收到裁定那現在法院預支一定的金額交保以後那跑掉了以後檢察官的講法也是又說我又沒有收到裁定這就變成說到底這個制度裡面有沒有什麼樣的一個破洞在這個地方你像譬如說科技監控的部分我到現在還沒有搞清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
227.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
253.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我到現在還沒搞清楚我兩三個禮拜到法官學院的時候我特地去詢問了一下我也跟你們法界的人討論了一下我到現在還是搞不清楚就是說你像比如說實質科技監控某某某科技監控有預知科技監控一定有一段的時間嘛對不對那科技監控完以後我說把這個電子腳療我要把它給放掉把它給拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
254.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
279.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
就解除他的科技監控法官說要解除科技監控就可以解除科技監控那我們實務上就是你要有電子腳療的話你腳上有戴一個啊不可能法官自己去把它給拆除掉啊一定有人把它拆除掉啊那假設說我我是那個我們現在在執行的科技監控的人到底是誰啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
281.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
305.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
各位我們在四星電子組有設一個科共中心對 我知道高電子組有科共中心我說實際上要把那個角料拿掉的是誰啊科共中心有專門技術人員會去是技術人員那總要有人給他下令啊他就是這樣子啊如果他科技監控有一定期間嘛如果期間到了不延期在期間到前十天我們科共中心就開始通知法官你要不要延 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
306.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
332.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
如果時間到了還沒有因為沒有接下來延長的裁定了嘛他就不能夠再繼續擴控時間到了放人很合理啦時間到了放人很合理那我的意思就是說那你時間還沒到那我法官說下個裁定說你這個解除某某某的科技監控那總會你們是用開案的系統是不是對 他有一個系統好 那麼系統進去了以後那也不可能那一個執行人員直接他受到這樣的一個命令啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
335.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
357.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
你們都不用有任何一個書面或者說電子的公文都不用他如果裁定要科技監控當然他要有一個科技監控的命令書這些命令書給科工中心一定要有所以說嘛所以說你像比如說中文字案嘛你法官說要解除這個科技監控你要一個命令書嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
359.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
364.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他這個不是 他是不延長 這個個案他是不延長時間到了就不延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
366.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
391.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他時間到不延長所以他沒有另外的一個書面出來了就像我們羈押 羈押時間到了你沒有再一個延長羈押那你檢方哪有可能不知道 檢方一定知道啊高檢署一定知道啊因為他是法院直接通知客控中心的直接通知客控中心喔對 他是直接 高檢署法官 他直接高院他直接 不是高檢署 高院跟科技中心聯繫因為審理中的強制處分是法官做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
392.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
402.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那所以沈理中高院下這個裁定他直接通知 其實就是一個裁定嘛他直接通知客控中心說中文字放人是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
406.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
427.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他放不放人 他因為 他沒有被羈押他科工中心這個人沒有被羈押 沒有放人的問題不是 解除科技監控啦 解除科技監控啦各位爸爸 他如果不延長的話 時間到了就不能夠不 不 我的意思是總要有人把他解除掉當然 當然那你不可能唸咒語說好好好 解除掉 不可能啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
427.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
448.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他到Deadline的前一天或Deadline的前一天我們的技術人員通常會約到法院的特定住所去做解除的動作所以你們的技術一定要一個技術人員把他給繳聊電子繳聊把他給解除嘛所以這個解除的人到底是誰叫他去把他解除的啊他收到誰的命令啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
450.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
465.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
法院啊法院直接喔對因為審理中就是直接直接法院對對科控中心了啊所以這件就跟你們高檢署就無關喔因為他不延長他其實其實跟這件哇那就無頭公案啊那那像這種案子你像譬如說呃 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
467.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
474.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
在審理當中你檢察官 法官在借押庭的時候沒有通知檢察官立庭那檢察官事後 人跑掉了以後大家都不逃公安法官說我本來就是我獨立審判我認為三百萬本來就是合理的啊我認為三百萬一般案件的話你說我要保全被告或者我整個程序的進行三百萬是合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
494.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
502.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
常常會出現這樣的一個不可能每個案子都是羈押嘛那你也不能講法官是什麼那檢察官又說我沒有收到裁定那像這種案件你們認為有沒有什麼樣的方法會比較好一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
508.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
526.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
當然根據委員報告啦 檢察官他要監督法院的所做的裁定當然就是對裁定本身提起救濟嘛是嘛 那前提是檢察官要知道這個裁定而且付理由他才有辦法救濟副秘書長有沒有什麼樣的 別有這個案齁每天都要拼一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
527.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
543.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
補一支中文字 補一支竹筆內通這個司法現在真的會有減損就是我們司法院立場我們一定會深自檢討但是我要跟委員講一下這背景就是說偵查中 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
544.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
558.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
結束之後檢察官決定他要起訴這個是檢察官決定的那今天這個人事實上本來在偵查中押他今天要到法院來事實上這個押票也是檢方開出來所以那一天要進到法院的時候檢察官他是知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
559.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
576.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
今天檢察官要法官要決定就是這個疑審程序有沒有他要決定這個所以我們實務上過去呢我們都尊重就是說因為檢察官他本來就知道了嘛知道說今天會開這個那個結壓程序那我們都是尊重說檢察官因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
576.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
603.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
坦白講因為大家真的太忙了大家負擔太重所以就尊重他他們來不來第一個他們是知道的那第二就是說大案他們其實也通常都會來那就是說這個事情發生之後呢檢方既然說我們沒有通知其實很多法院跟很多法官都還是會通知只是說有些呢就沒有通知因為檢察官前提他已經知道嘛那如果說認為這個地方我們要改善就是以後我們全面就全部通通都通知以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
604.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
630.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那所以就是說當天要做了一個裁定檢方當然知道今天院方他會去做一個那個裁定那往後因為這個程序還在走所以說這個裁定是什麼檢察官他當然是會知道的那1306條的規定就是說院方他一定都會就是當庭去做一個宣示這個裁定已經做出來了嘛那做出來之後檢察官從這個10點開始他也是可以提抗告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
631.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
656.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那 社長 你看 講法要跟你不同來他裁定 宣誓是對外生效沒有錯但是 宣誓因為這個案子講得沒有道理他不曉得裁定的理由跟裁定的內容嘛他沒有裁定 他不知道理由他如何進行抗告 除非他就一律的抗告啦我比較在意的其實不是這個啦 你們都 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
658.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
672.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
比較本位立場啦 其實我聽起來也都有道理啦但問題就是說 社會大眾不是這樣看啦社會大眾不會這樣看啦社會大眾一定把你們兩個的講法就是你們是呼嘌皮球啦社會大眾認為你們這樣 欸 不然都沒有人錯很多事情確實沒有人錯喔但問題緩解你怎麼樣去補這樣的一個漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
680.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
703.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這第一個 第二個我為什麼要請海巡跟這個 呃 漁民署上來的原因就是說你像譬如說 我們一般財務案件 你說啊你就欠稅 你不叫欸 我這個行政院處這個地方 就跟你說 你這個限制出境限制出境 還有出海那一般這種情況的話 你們海巡接到這樣子的話 你們是怎麼處理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
705.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
731.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
跟委員報告就是有關處分機關做出的限制出境海處分那本署接獲通知之後會立即由本署的偵防分署在安檢知識系統裡面書件那提供所屬來做一個查詢那如果是 是啦我的意思說已經到海邊了 現在到海邊了你看到了你們怎麼處理我們會告知原處分機關那禁止這個當事對象來出海 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
733.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
750.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
禁止對象出海 就是說你不能處理這樣就沒有其他任何處分了你們就是阻擋你不要給我出去有沒有其他動作 都沒有然後另外會通知原處分機關通知原處分機關原處分機關你們碰到他都怎麼處理他都怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
757.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
769.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
也譬如說行政執行處我們跟你們說這個人就欠稅了 不能處理他們來到海邊 你們在巡邏你給他通知有一個人在這個地方他欠稅的 他不能出去的那他通知你們接下來怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
770.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
789.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
他們會到現場嗎 不會吧原主任機關未必會到現場那有時候會透過電話的方式告知這個對象他不可以出海就只告訴他不可以出海而已那請問移民署移民署你們怎麼處理飛機要飛出去的到那個地方你們的處理方式是怎麼樣委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
790.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
816.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
如果我們收到行政機關或是司軍法機關的那個限制出境的命令那原則上如果當事人到了國境線上的時候我們也是一語攔阻攔阻是一定攔阻我說你們用什麼樣的處分的方式原則上如果他不能出境的情況之下我們會看後續之前那個司軍法機關有沒有做特別的註記希望我們做什麼樣的動作你們不是都開個書面給他而已嗎你們就是開書面 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
819.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
843.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那為什麼海巡的方式就跟你們不一樣這也怪喔我現在變成這種限制出境跟出海的部分海巡跟移民署的做法就不同啦你們移民署就是直接開一張書面跟他說你已經限制出境出海了所以你不能出境 交給他 憑什麼給他照反而海巡的做法又不一樣了他會去通知原機關然後等他的指示看要怎麼做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
846.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
863.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
跟委員補充報告一下因為我們在國境線上一攔阻的時候我們會應當事人的要求開禁止出境的通知單通知單裡面會跟當事人告知說是哪個機關來禁止他出境那後續的處置的部分我們會依個 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
865.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
887.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
禁止出境的機關給我們的指示如果他需要電告那我們就會用電告的方式如果當事人是需要我們留置那我們就會就留置的方式請該等行政機關來做處理好 我最後一個問題要請教副秘書長就是說你像一般我們做限制出境的話像譬如說限制出境搭飛機的一定要護照嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
888.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
906.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那限制出境 我看今天羅志強委員他也提了一個案子啦我都這個蠻有創意的 你像譬如說你說限制出境了 那我法院可以把你限制出境啦我有這個權限把你限制出境啦 我乾脆把你這個護照給註銷啦我覺得這倒也不錯的一個思考的方式 我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
907.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
918.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我們司法院是贊同的因為目前的那個因為目前那個我們在那個報告上有講就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
921.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
949.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那個現行的那個行政作業上就是說外交部他們本來就是也有就不發護照跟那個註銷那現在就是說對於註銷的這一塊呢就是說把它放到那個116之二讓它作為就是停止羈押一個替代那個處分這個是可行的那這個等於是跟就是說他們外交部他們所做等於是那個多重的一個行政處分嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
949.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
975.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那這個我們認為是可行而且是有效的我也認為是有效所以羅志祥這個案子我準備給你支持但是最後的一個叮嚀就是說願檢其實像已經接二連三出現這樣的一個狀況常常讓檢察官用說我沒有收到裁定這個不是辦法啦再出現一次再出現一次每一次出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
977.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1004.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
民眾的想法跟你們想的不一樣啊你們想的是各自的是誰的一個理由到最後可能會有究責的問題嘛這到底問題點出在哪裡搞不好都嚴不爽民眾的想法就是 啊是不是又偷偷放人了這個對司法的信賴多會減損啊你們還是要想個辦法院檢之間看怎麼樣有一個聯繫或者研擬出一個你們共同看怎麼樣把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1006.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1011.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
動把它給補起來我覺得這個不要開玩笑啦好不好可以喔 好 謝謝 |