| IVOD_ID |
160619 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160619 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-24T10:30:05+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-24T10:40:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:55 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5e1f7c3e1748c6e5db0bba025748075318c34ac1b6c98163c2be5dfb0591b1bfd3c8be10e344e7af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張宏陸 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:30:05 - 10:40:00 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查委員黃健豪等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
三、審查委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「住宅法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。
四、審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
五、審查委員賴士葆等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。
六、審查委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「住宅法第十條及第五十七條之一條文修正草案」案。
七、審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
八、委員李彥秀等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。
九、審查委員羅智強等16人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
十、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
十一、審查委員蘇巧慧等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
十二、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「住宅法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案。
十三、審查委員林思銘等21人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
十四、審查委員李坤城等24人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
十五、審查委員徐欣瑩等26人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
十六、審查委員馬文君等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
十七、審查委員高金素梅等27人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
十八、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「住宅法第二條條文修正草案」案。
十九、審查委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「住宅法第二十二條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。
二十、審查委員林倩綺等23人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十一、審查委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
二十二、審查委員陳素月等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
二十三、審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
二十四、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十五、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
(僅詢答，第二十一案至第二十五案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。)
【4月23日及24日兩天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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那就不用動了啦部長麻煩囉我先請教署長其實我們現在所說的社會住宅大概有分成中央興建跟地方興建的兩大部分是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
48.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
是不是是是嘛好那中央的他的一些辦法跟地方的一些好個性式的辦法有沒有全國一致目前沒有因為各地方政府還會有他因地制宜的一些方法沒錯啦這個其實你說各地方要求跟中央我覺得也不盡合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
49.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
77.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
你以這個我們雙北跟你比如說其他的一般的張化什麼的這不是六度的我看條件都不一樣這也不適合說全國都一致那問題來了署長我想請教一下那我們今天如果修這個住宅法可以解決我說的這些情況嗎事實上還是很難因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
104.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
你太剛性的立法下去以後會讓他地方實務上可能會產生一些執行的困難所以我們才會覺得說比較需要多一點反而是透過行政措施或行政協商盡量能夠一方面照顧地方的需求但是一方面又能夠確保社宅這樣的政策是順利的在進行是通常會用這樣的方式來進行立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
105.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
129.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
是一個很明確但有時候立法又不適合全國一致的標準這其實我覺得我們從這個點去思考可能就是會有很大的問題我想再繼續請教一下就是說我們現在解決住宅的問題應該是分成社會住宅一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
131.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
153.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
然後這個什麼租金補貼或什麼的這其實又是很重要的一塊我們目前台灣是不是大概比較重要是這兩塊來解決住宅的問題是其實基本上大概就是直接興建租金補貼跟包租代管三個政策來協助所有的租屋族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
154.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
181.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
對啦,租金補貼跟包租代管,我認為它的性質比較一樣啦齁不然,我請教你一個就好了齁那你覺得這兩個,兩大支柱啊現在的運行起來,其實有沒有解決了大部分的問題了是不不,我請教一下部長謝謝委員現在除了直接興建住宅以外齁我們包租代管跟租金補貼加起來互數 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
182.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
205.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
已經高達八十五萬也就是說至少有八十五萬戶的人是接受政府的這個社會住宅或是租金補貼的一個協助而且都集中在都會地區比較多六都因為都會比較會需要這個也跟工作性質有關謝謝部長 部長你先回去坐那再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
211.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
236.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
署長這剛剛布宅已經講了解決了大部分但我們必須要承認還有一些不還有一些問題沒有解決像剛剛我看應該有很多人關切到這個議題在修法的裡面有可能關切一些議題比如說住宿宅的設宅的人我們現在是六年嘛最多嘛可能這個青年人 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
239.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
251.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
6年他小孩子剛好要上小學了剛好又要搬遷其實這一點倒是可以思考一下如何去補足這一塊我不知道署長你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
252.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
275.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
了解,應該是這麼說,因為有可能他入住的時候,他還單身或是剛要結婚所以他很可能在抽的時候,他去抽了這個單人房但是他已經遇到小孩子出生,要甚至要上小學,他開始要有分房的概念的時候其實那時候就不是社宅續租的問題而已,他還有轉換房型的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
275.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
294.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那這就會讓我們現在的這一個直接興建這樣的一個困境會出來就是說你成長的速度還不夠快但是你也面臨了下一輪的問題那所以這也是我們在過程當中一直希望透過像租金補貼包租貸款這一類的輔助性的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
295.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
320.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
提供更多的行政上的措施來協助他們你不是只有直接興建的可以選擇你也有其他的可以選擇那我們來強化那一個部分讓你在這個轉換的過程當中那當然社宅抽得到最好那抽不到你還有其他的方式來進行那這樣的話能夠讓他的居住的租屋的環境能夠更穩定我想這也是一個比較好的一個替代的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
321.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
327.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
再一個問題我們弱勢雖然我們現行的法律規定大概40%但實際上 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
332.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
359.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
也實施好幾年啊他們實際上真正入住的比例是多少我們跟六都都有去調查過了那大概實際上的這個因為他除了弱勢戶以外他還可以抽一半戶所以他等於有兩支籤的機會那所以至少都已經是46到56之間也就是說都是弱勢46到50也就是說正式來講他已經過半了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
361.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
375.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
實務上他已經過半了所以這也是我們在擔憂這一次的修法若他一樣握有兩支籤他就會可能掏垮六十幾甚至衝到七十這樣的問題會跑出來其實我為什麼要特別問這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
377.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
391.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
其實弱勢的定義不一定只有他是中低收入戶其實我們的定義我們現在的法令來講他的範圍蠻廣的啦就弱勢是不是蠻廣的是嘛當然弱勢我們要特別照顧這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
393.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
沒有話講但以現在實際的執行上來講你說已經超過50而且中簽率是一般戶的2.5倍到3.5倍數字我要跟署長報告一下我跟你說數字是冰冷的啦你剛剛講說46到56其實我也覺得這個範圍有點廣這1XXX%很難說服大家但 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
422.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
可以有一個很清楚的就是說因為弱勢他是可以抽兩次這個可能大家都不知道很多人不知道他是可以抽兩次所以他的中籤率就會比較高那我們如果說提高到50%我看可能提高到六成那你有一些青年人 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
448.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
472.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他可能就被排擠到囉一些青年可能就抽不到囉應該說青年那個族群是更大的一群但是他的種籤率又會越來越低他可能那個種數是更大的但是他可能種籤率會更低這也是我們比較擔憂另一類的排擠的問題我的意思說如果你提高到50%如果這樣的話青年那一塊可能青年就很多人抽不到嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
473.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
498.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那所以啦 署長 我們剛剛簡單的討論幾個問題啦你覺不覺得啦 其實這個社會住宅從蔡英文總統開始大力推之後 其實到現在啦雖然執政八年 但不可能第一年就做吧 要編預算要編什麼吧大概第二年第三年開始蓋嘛 對不對那到現在也大概有好幾年的時間了嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
500.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
522.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
署長 是有沒有需要一個總檢討的時候了就是我們推行一項政策大概一段時間了可不可以去檢討這個政策利弊得失然後我們去再稍微精進你覺得有時間點到了嗎對 根文報告也剛好差不多今年很多社宅都是第一輪 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
522.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
536.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
已經就是六年已經處理完畢了已經出租完畢了那都已經進行第二輪那這也是剛好可以總結一些問題的涉宅直接新建涉宅的問題那以及來討論後續的解決對策 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
538.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
563.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以這一個我們會找六都一起來討論看看他們對這一方面的政策甚至回饋到我們整個的直接興建社宅的要面對的問題來做一個總檢討這個部分我們會來進行實際上我真的覺得今天的很多的修法其實有一些觀點它是對的是出現了問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
564.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
588.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
但你們也說你們也在檢討也在做了我覺得啦與其我們這邊在這樣子我覺得要給你們時間你們弄出一套你們的想法你們的解決對策什麼的來給我們內政委員會然後讓大家來思考如何去改進你覺得可以嗎這個我想我們一定會來會朝這個方向來做可以啦好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
592.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
593.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好 謝謝張宏祿 趙偉 |