| IVOD_ID |
160607 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160607 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-22-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-24T10:04:48+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-24T10:15:40+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:52 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5e1f7c3e1748c6e54c952af7c1cb95e1c89945c4c3ca21e1c2be5dfb0591b1bf8543b75889b48ec65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
葉元之 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:04:48 - 10:15:40 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
(4月23日及24日二天一次會)） |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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因為總統賴清德他在接見前兩天在接見環保團體的時候他有講說針對未來新的先進的核能技術保持開放的態度不過他有強調任何政策變更都必須滿足核安核廢社會共識三個前提那這三個前提實際上又以前面兩個很重要為什麼因為第三個前提社會共識是根據到底有沒有核安還有核廢料能不能處理來做決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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所以核安會的責任很重大第一個要跟社會大眾確保說核能是安全的第二個也要想辦法來處理核廢啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
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好,然後再來就是我們也可以發現說最近有非常多的過去反對核能的一些社會的一些先進都開始轉變了就像我們現在也頗為被賴總統器重的童子賢他也不斷地在強調就是說未來能源的組合的黃金比例應該是三成綠能、三成核能跟四成火力發電 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
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那當然這是為什麼呢 這就是大家很關心能源的穩定的供給以及就是非碳家園 所以才會對核能抱有那麼大的期望想問一下主委 因為主委本身也是核能專家你是這方面的博士嘛 到底對於核能的安全的部分你的看法是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
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報告委員河安會監管下的核電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
是必須合乎安全要求的所以是安全的嘛 核能是安全的一定是安全的 核能是安全的這是核安會的職責所以核能是安全的嘛 是嗎要讓安全一旦核安會認為運轉中核電廠有安全疑慮核安會一定會要求核電廠停機檢查這點是毫無模糊的餘地謝謝主委 那主委的意思是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
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我現在聽你的講法啦感覺核能是安全的啦因為如果核能有安全疑慮你就會要求他停機檢查嘛現在都沒有要求他停機檢查嘛所以目前來講感覺上您是覺得核能是安全那接下來我來問一下核廢喔因為今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
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賴總統講說對於先進的核能技術保持核能開放態度這應該指的是現在大家在看看是不是能夠接受那個SMR就是小型模組化的反應毒是這個意思嗎小型模組化它有很多不同的設計有些設計它核廢料會比 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
166.853 |
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傳統核電廠多一些有些會差不多有些會少很多不同的設計有不同的所以我們未來可能會接受的是哪一種是會核廢料會多很多的還是會少很多的還是差不多的這還需要評估因為評估要引進哪一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
187.777 |
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是Module Reactor 是很複雜的過程因為你剛剛有提到說SMR有的它會造成更多的核廢料 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
200.424 |
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那如果以這個大家對於核廢料的恐懼來講的話這種會造成比較多的核廢料就不太可能引進嘛引進的應該是會少很多的嘛理論上是這樣嘛否則不可能說大家在這邊一直罵核廢料結果我們政府說我們要採用我們要引進SM嘛結果我們引進一個會造成更多核廢料的來這不太合理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
220.367 |
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| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以我聽起來感覺上應該是會這個朝向引進比較少核廢料的但無論如何它就是有核廢料所以我們核廢料的問題還是要解決甚至於連我們現在核二核三要除液的過程當中也都會衍生核廢料所以我接下來我就想要問一下主委我們現在核廢料的處理到底是怎麼樣我是有看到一個新聞說 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
245.662 |
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| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
現在經濟部當然這是經濟部的事情經濟部說現在推動高階核廢料選址的一個辦公室已經成立了然後也找了這個負責人負責人是一個教授他的工作就是要跟社會做溝通感覺上好像這個已經選好了所以要開始要跟社會溝通了那我們來看一下核廢料的進程等一下請主委來說明一下這個是之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
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核安會所訂出來核廢料處理的進程我們今年是2025年嘛所以我們是應該是還在第二階段第二階段就是厚紙長紙的評選與核定階段然後我們到2028年必須要完成厚紙選紙的調查跟評估然後還有要建立厚紙長紙的功能安全評估技術那請問一下因為剩3年2028年就要完成那個厚紙長紙 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
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的這個調查跟評估那主委我們現在有哪一些場址是作為那個最終處置場核廢的最終處置場還沒有做最後決定還沒有做最後決定因為已經要社會溝通了嘛所以現在是選哪幾個地方準備要跟社會溝通 |
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這點請組長回答報告委員是那個有關這個高放處置計畫部分那目前技術的研發部分我們其實行會都要求台電公司要跟上國際腳步關於選址的部分目前台電公司是沒有進度所以經濟部他設置這個專案辦公室那這專案辦公室的工作除了嚴定高放處置計畫的選址法案以外他也要 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
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兼做高低放最終處置選址作業跟必要地址調查以及社會溝通這是他整個辦公室的一個所以你的意思是說到目前為止還沒有還沒有候選的場址還沒有一個都沒有還沒有一個都沒有還沒有 對那他現在成立的這個辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
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負責人是一個他的專長是在做社會溝通但你連那個前面的長職都沒有你要怎麼讓他去做社會溝通他們向經濟部向透過成立那個原定了選址條例的法案然後依序來做選址的工作那你這樣有信心2028年可以達到你們原本規劃的進程嗎 |
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呃我這個這個進程恐怕到時候台電公司是難以達成難以達成那會延後多久呃這個要看呃就是整個整個呃那個法案齁通過後他設定的他會在這裡面都沒有角色嗎呃我們其實是每年都會來進行呃台電公司組織計畫的一個呃對因為那個我為什麼會在這邊問因為我們剛剛這樣 |
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一論下來嘛 第一個就算我們要引進SMR它也是會有核廢料第二個我們現有的核能機組就算除以也會有核廢料所以核廢料就是要處理現在不是說好像停核二核三停機之後就已經廢了家園就不用處理核廢料 不是就是要處理 這個事情就是要處理那所以我們當然就是要按照原本規劃的進程去走嘛 |
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那我看到經濟部也有動作了嘛所以才來問結果聽你們的說法是說即便是成立這個辦公室感覺好像還是跟我們原本規劃的進度落差很大那大家就慢慢拖就好了啊那如果慢慢拖的情況之下那核廢的問題一直沒有辦法給社會大眾一個交代啊 |
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那賴總統講的要處理核廢社會有共識這就是空話啦那大家還是會疑慮說能源到底能不能穩定地供給嘛這都是環環相扣的嘛所以我覺得這個核廢的部分不知道主委因為您是這方面專家啦齁您加入核安會之後應該是可以給我們核廢的處理帶來一個專業的一股力量啦能不能push台電或者是核安會可以趕快處理 |
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491.284 |
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507.715 |
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科技一直在進步,處理高階核廢料技術也一直在進步,而且將來很有可能把高階核廢料轉換為低階核廢料,一旦目的達到的話,核廢料的處理就會簡單得多。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
511.179 |
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我最後一分鐘我再問一個問題因為3月6號那時候屏東核三廠發生火災那天是11月18號的時候發現有明火嗎11月23號的時候那時候還通報廠內的消防員來處理那核安會是11點35分才接貨通報然後到了12點36分的時候才上網公告 |
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534.528 |
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那後來因為這個事情有冒出煙啦所以當時屏東有些民意代表也受不了直接就沖河山場了就到底發生什麼事情那環環會我不知道說在這個事情後來後來這個檢討裡面呢有一點我們很快看一下他說以後無論火勢大小都要先通報再滅火那這個是不是很怪啊你不滅火那你為什麼要先通報再滅火 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
563.054 |
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好 跟委員說明喔 針對這一...而且第二個就是說你們通報的時間會不會太慢了你看11點18分那時候火就出來了那大家都很害怕然後一直到12點36分才上網公告讓社會大眾知道發生什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
577.853 |
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會不會太慢了B的那個當地的證明代表都衝到河山場去了然後第三個問題啦就是說其實我們後來看你們事後的報告覺得河山場即便發生火災其實還是相對來說算安全的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
592.734 |
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615.195 |
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對不對 它有一些防火措施應該也是算安全的對不對 請簡單說明一下跟委員說明喔 那在現場發生火災的時候當然第一線工作人員會先撲滅火災 然後進行後續的通報那核安會的視察同仁 接獲訊息的時候要現場了解它的狀況 也要了解機組的狀況確認說火災沒有對兩部機組的運作安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
618.658 |
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647.737 |
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那核安會整理所有資訊之後在12點36分然後會上最新消息然後提供給民眾知的一些訊息那針對委員剛才所提到的台電公司所提出來先通報再滅火這部分事實上核安會在檢視台電公司的一些作為我們也有發現到那後續我們會請台電公司去請一些消防單位來確認整個的程序然後建立適當的程序以上說明好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
650.087 |
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650.57 |
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好,謝謝葉雲芝委員 |