| IVOD_ID |
160572 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160572 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-23T12:58:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-23T13:05:30+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:06:50 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/27ac2f54fdf75cc07619b6d638be9367a01776dcf2b4a8ff7bdb191357f7ebfa9aab6c45daf424f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蔡易餘 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:58:40 - 13:05:30 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、銓敘部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、行政院人事行政總處、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、內政部、中央選舉委員會、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「選舉罷免程序中，如何落實公務人員含政務官（人員）、司法人員、選務人員恪守行政中立，且秉持公正執法勿偏頗」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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好 謝謝主席那我們是有請司法院副秘書長跟法務部部長司法院刑事廳廳長也請好 部長以及副秘書長 廳長 |
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那事實上我上一次來司法委員會就是在講關於現在詐騙集團車手犯罪然後無法被重判這件事情事實上我已經在上一次的諮詢我們知道法務部的立場法務部還是希望車手是共犯嘛至少也是幫助犯所以必須基於現在規定的打詐的專法他是需要被重判的 |
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但是看起來實務上判不重那判不重咧現在就產生了一個原因就是說因為基於這個詐欺危害防治條例然後有說你自白而且繳交犯罪所得的話就可以減刑 |
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那因為自白可以繳交犯罪所得,結果變成詐騙集團的車手咧主要有一個一貫性的說法,就是說我被抓到六號,我可能會說我是出犯好,出犯當然就已經有減刑了那也有可能會說咧,我不罰所得,我這案子我當詐騙五十萬我說我就賺一萬而已,我就遭這罪,去拿我賺一萬塊 |
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那我的不法所得到底是五十萬還是一萬這件事情看起來現在司法院有朝向要把他認定一萬是不法所得甚至有些車手還大辣的說我沒有拿到所以我沒有不法所得所以他也不用繳交不法所得然後他卻後來卻得到了一個輕判所以我們看到現在好多車手可能紅牌六個月可能紅牌幾個月 |
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吵吵就了事了那我知道我們現在司法院5月14號還要針對這個不罰所得的認定然後要開會討論那我現在感受到的法院是不是要朝向不罰所得是以他實際的收入這一件事情來看 |
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那我想要問一下我們司法院的態度在這個事情上我們大家對於打詐這麼重要而且事實上打詐最大的破口就是在車手因為只有車手他才會實際出現所以整個檢調警察的一個辦案要怎麼把這個車手抓起來然後由車手來自白後順藤摸瓜才能破獲詐騙集團 |
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或者是才能去找一些相對應的金流結果看起來車手無法被重判這件事已經變成打詐的最後的一個難關我認為司法院現在的態度是怎樣呢 |
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好 那個謝謝委員垂尋關心這件事情那首先第一個跟那個委員報告就是說因為司法院主責的是司法行政那有關於說在個案中法律怎麼適用這個是屬於法官的那個權責那司法院沒有辦法 就是這不是我們全國我當然知道說個案有個案法官但是我們這一件已經有法官去申請這個大法庭的統一解釋 |
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219.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以這個統一解釋完以後就會拘束很多法官他們的裁量權嘛所以我現在也在 我也會玩樂啦這個解釋會怎麼發展說真的我不知道但是我們司法院的立場我們到底認為詐騙集團這個車手應該要重判還是就是像這樣有輕判的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
227.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
249.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那個跟那個委員報告一下就是說有關於那個法律的那個適用呢就是在那個法院端的那個最高法院他事實上是因為審計制度構造的關係就是所以說他最後那個權威性事實上是在那個大法庭他所做的這個解釋啊然後目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
251.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
279.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因為就是法律的適用在法官之間有分歧就如委員對這件事情了解得非常清楚就是有法官他主張說是個別的犯罪那有些是主張說是全部的要全部繳交之後才能夠減刑那因為現在就是因為有產生的歧義所以說那個大法庭剛剛辯論終結完那定在五月的時候會做一個宣判做一個統一大法庭要宣判了啦但是我要跟司法院我還是要呼籲啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
280.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
303.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
事實上我們在思考這件事情的時候我們都太重視被告也就是車手這個人我們卻忽略了被害者當被害者他被詐騙50萬、100萬這件事情車手所參與的犯罪當然就是50萬、100萬啊怎麼可能車手他所參與的是他後來拿到的報酬50萬、100萬、100萬都可以這個跟我們老百姓 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
329.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
認為的詐騙的一個要件這個當然涉及不法所得的計算但是我覺得我們司法院還是要到底站在什麼本位在思考這件事被告人權很重要但是被害者他的損失我認為這是更重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
349.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以不法所得的這一個認定上,到底他這人就被詐騙,那不要說詐騙集團,這些詐騙集團可能外靠黨騙了我,那你不可以讓那個車手去負擔整個詐騙集團,可是至少在每一個詐騙的個案中,他的不法所得,就一定是被騙的總額嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
353.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
367.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我也沒辦法干涉每一個個案的法官只是說我要透過這個機會 我覺得要講給社會聽因為只有社會形成壓力 法官也許才聽得見不然我們每個人 我們又沒辦法跟法官對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
387.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那法官也有他的一個認識用法可是我看檢察官不這麼認為檢察官每一次都針對車手被輕判然後被不法所得我看起來檢察官都有上訴但是就要去讀法官這個法官可能比較站在被告這個法官怎樣讀法官就這樣這樣不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
389.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
405.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們現在打詐是台灣一個很重要的一個課題那這個課題不能把打詐都讓基層的警員 基層的檢察官 時尚法官也是扮演很重要的一環 好不好是 謝謝委員好 謝謝 |