| IVOD_ID |
160521 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160521 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-23T11:17:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-23T11:30:46+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/27ac2f54fdf75cc075fc376fd06f213ca01776dcf2b4a8ff9a3354dc8dbd3a62f856b9dc284de10f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
翁曉玲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:17:59 - 11:30:46 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、銓敘部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、行政院人事行政總處、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、內政部、中央選舉委員會、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「選舉罷免程序中，如何落實公務人員含政務官（人員）、司法人員、選務人員恪守行政中立，且秉持公正執法勿偏頗」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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呃主席好呃有請呃首先先請呃市部長還有人事人人呃人事總處的則市長呃今天人總有代表嗎不好意思我剛沒有看到哦好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
51.529 |
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我想今天看到這個權需部和人事總處的報告裡面其實都有提到一個重點就是有關於行政中立的部分那看起來我們目前法規上面是只有針對公務人員才有行政中立法那麼但是政務官因為到目前為止都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.369 |
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制定政務人員的行政中立法那麼所以就部長還有在人總的報告裡面那麼就認為說其實就目前的政務官 政務部長是沒有適用也不准用這個相關公務人員法規的這樣的一個解釋嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
73.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
96.646 |
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他確實不是適用這個法律也不是准用這個法律但是他還是有一些應該遵守一些行為規則我想在任總的報告裡面有提到就是說政務官雖然說他不適用公務人員行政中立法但是仍然是有公務員服務法的適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
121.539 |
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在學術部的報告裡面可能也有寫到我不太記得沒有那麼清楚特別是在公務員服務法第20條的規定講到公務員非營職務的需要不得動用行政資源就這個部分是不是我們現在講的政務官部會首長們也應該要適用公務員服務法第20條的規定服務法是適用政務人員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
122.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
148.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
是適用政務人員的嘛那麼所以我想請教部長就是現在我們看到這個左內閣那他幾乎就是率領了他這個底下的閣員去參加民進黨所舉辦的人民是頭家的政策宣講我想這個院長下鄉宣講一定有搭乘自己的公務車吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
151.104 |
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164.135 |
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有公務駕駛開車一定也會有隨戶陪同那甚至還警車開道請問像這樣的情況有沒有屬於動用行政資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
184.85 |
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跟委員報告我想這個部分我的理解行政院應該有一個規範在跟所有的政務人員講說屬於選舉參與選舉活動過程裡面涉及到公用資源的時候有哪些分際應該要拿捏我的印象中是有這個規定人種的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
189.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
206.562 |
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因為政務人員來講的話他是跟著政黨選舉還有政策成敗進退的人員你知道這一次他們行政院的左內閣他們帶著閣約下鄉宣講他們是開自己的車嗎還是坐的是公務車 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
208.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
223.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
有沒有隨戶陪同隨戶的部分來講的話依照那個就是說警政 內政部他有訂定中央政府機關首長還有特定人士安全內政部那你人總有訂定嗎這個是依照內政部隨戶的部分是內政部所以這個情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
227.751 |
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253.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
他隨戶有沒有陪同嗎 據你了解隨戶有沒有陪同隨戶的話 依照內政部的規定他是就是說這個我們有跟檢證署了解政務首長他不分平日或出席活動他的安全維護事項 他如果有需要的話所以也不分是不是職務 是公務還是私務隨戶都要陪同 你的意思是這樣對 但是隨戶陪同他是基於維護這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
256.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
273.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
政務首長的安全但是他在這個相關的因為這個稅務本身也是綜藝法的使用對象我沒有時間聽您在說這麼多我希望你們能夠去查去了解這一次的行政院閣員參加民進黨所舉辦的人民事頭家的下鄉宣講活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
277.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
286.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
到底有沒有利用公共資源 利用行政資源警察有沒有幫忙開道 學會有沒有陪同 是不是公務駕駛開車這個部分麻煩請你們一個禮拜之內先給我一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
292.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
318.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
好 那我要講的就是說其實這個社會上面過去一段一再的有在講就是為什麼我們目前只有公務人員的行政中立法只有事務官才要遵守行政中立那我們的政務官我們不會首長不需要遵守行政中立嗎考試院是不是之前也曾經有提過政務人員中立法的這個草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
321.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
345.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
並不是用政務人員中立法這個草案我印象中是屬於政務人員法整體的一個概念的草案所以你們之前有提過政務人員法的草案對 之前是 那現在呢目前因為那個法案研議過程裡面還是有一些不同的一些討論所以一直後來就沒有再繼續往前走好 所以 請問人事總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
347.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
365.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
有沒有計畫要提出政務人員法的相關法案這個部分因為目前政務人員法草案就誠如部長講各界在對於相關的一些議題還有一些總之就是你們不打算提嘛不打算提案嘛在民進黨政府執政的這些年 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
366.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
383.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
就從來也沒有認真的思考過要不要去提出政務人員法政務人員服務法或政務人員中立法的相關的修法因為在你們現在執政的這個階段裡面我們看到的部會首長政務官就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
385.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
毫無忌憚幫忙助選然後幫忙各式各樣的罷免然後公投宣言獎等等的活動在外界看來這就是非常鮮明的明顯的這就是違反行政中立可是毫無作為考試院也沒有作為人事總署也沒作為據我了解之前考校考試院也曾經有提出過政務人員服務法但是到了行政院人事總署這裡又沒有積極的提 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
413.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
431.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
然後你們在那裡這個強調提案的修法權限是行政院那如果是你們是認為是行政院應該有權修法你就提啊也不提那明明就是考試院你們才是主管機關你們也應該要提可是卻不作為卻待於作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
433.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
453.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我這邊想要提醒部長,就是在外界一般老百姓現在大家的眼睛是雪亮的,誰中立誰不中立,清清楚楚我有時候覺得我們的公務人員宿官是很可憐,他們其實很無奈,他們收到長官的指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
455.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
476.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
硬是叫他們去配合做一些行政不中立的事那真正的罪魁禍首政務官卻沒有任何一個法律可以去拘束這樣是合理嗎是不是可以請兩個單位可以在一個月之內提出一份如何督促政務人員要遵守行政中立的法制延期報告給本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
478.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
501.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
可以嗎請部長還有人事總處這邊請你們分別提一份就是看看其他國家怎麼制定相關的規定吧對我認為說眾人員遵守行政中立是非常非常重要的這個一個月之內可以提報告給本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
502.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
526.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們會把一個初步的意見跟這個委員做一個報告好的 謝謝部長那接下來我要再講的就是剛剛吳思瑤說國民黨不中立國民黨行政不中立他的這句話基本上是有語病的國民黨現在是執政黨嗎在現在的執政政府不要忘記是民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
528.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
540.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
如果說是涉及各個縣市的話他就具體舉出勢力什麼叫做國民黨行政不中立那麼當然對於像是這個民進黨政府在他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
543.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
556.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個執政期間裡面所做的違反行政不中立的事情已經是逐番不備載這個太多太多了那麼我這裡我就不講然後另外呢我還有再請這個中選會好最後一個問題麻煩請中選會 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
564.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
592.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
委員好我想請教一下中選會從2015年到2024年大概我們這裡做了一個這個重計表就是應該有八件的罷免案請問在這個罷免這個八件的罷免案當中有沒有死人連署跟偽造文書的情形報告委員這幾件裡面都有提前死亡跟連署前死亡的那請問就是你們過去對於這些案子你們曾經有提出告發嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
593.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
616.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
有有哪些全部都有這八個案子都有都有那麼最近的一件謝國良的案子你們什麼時候提出告發的我們是在去年年底去年年底提出告發是是好我希望你們可以把這些案子的這個相關的這個提出告發的時間還有你們在中選會裡面處理的狀況提一份報告給我可以嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
621.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
640.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
麻煩請兩個禮拜之內提出相關的案子的告發的時間你們處理狀況給我那我想請教的就是韓國瑜市長還有謝國良市長的告發案是在罷免案之前還是罷免案之後所提出的兩位都是在罷免案之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
643.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
651.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
罷免案之後那這次為什麼中選會會違反過去的行政做法沒有等到整個罷免案結束之後才提起告發 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
653.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
673.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
因為以前怎麼這樣子處理我這邊也沒有辦法跟委員做說明但是因為提議的階段算是罷免其中的一個結果的一個呈現那我們就想說在提議的階段裡面既然已經有死亡連署跟偽造的這樣子的一個情勢了我們就把這一部分的問題先移送 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
675.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
705.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我想要這邊想要強調就是過去所有的告發案中選會的告發案據我所了解當然我沒有看到前面的案子的告發的時間但是就算有告發理論上來說依照前面幾個案前兩案的處理都是在罷免案投票結束之後才提起告發這次中選會的做法其實已經違反了你們過去的行政慣例行政作業的做法而且我覺得也不make sense |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
707.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
731.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那這個部分的話你說中選會有沒有違反行政中立他的做法上面有沒有瑕疵我認為其實是有的如果說中選會要改變過去的做法的話其實是不是應該也要早點講更何況我們現在中選會依照你們自己的法律解釋目前還適用舊法在舊法的階段可能還不涉及到去適用選辦法第98條之二我們這次新修的法 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
734.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
741.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
報告委員那因為我們講的那個新舊法的適用最主要是在選務辦理的一個程序的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
742.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
744.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好的 好 以上謝謝好 謝謝 |