| IVOD_ID |
160475 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160475 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-23T09:55:12+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-23T10:05:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:12 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/27ac2f54fdf75cc0478a13f8499067d9a01776dcf2b4a8ff87b5e96e7cd6ee728c3f6bbd0a8feaf75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王義川 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:55:12 - 10:05:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、銓敘部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、行政院人事行政總處、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、內政部、中央選舉委員會、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「選舉罷免程序中，如何落實公務人員含政務官（人員）、司法人員、選務人員恪守行政中立，且秉持公正執法勿偏頗」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席我們請中選會麻煩中選會上台委員早安 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
52.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好 你好 請問一下這個我們的第一階段連署的時候啊各地的選委會 相關的選委會他們都有會整成一個報表到中選會那裡面會載明有多少死亡連署 多少偽造情勢嘛那這個送到你們那裡去之後啊你們下一步針對他講的死亡連署你們會再做任何查證的動作嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
76.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
因為這是地方選委會還有互證機關查證的一個結果那我們會把這樣子的一個查證結果跟請委員會做審議那如果經過委員會審議通過的話我們就會把這樣子的一個疑似有偽造情勢的部分移送檢查那你們有看到偽造情勢的內容嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
79.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
97.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那個選委會送上來的時候他們會把那種疑似偽造的名冊也會就是也會附在裡面也會附在裡面是那現在偽造情勢啊好像你們有一欄叫做偽造情勢嘛是偽造情勢的樣態大概是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
99.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
113.923 |
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偽造情勢的樣態比較明顯的是死亡提議的這一個部分死亡提議是在另外一欄你們那個表的最後面才是偽造情勢嘛那死亡連署在比較靠左邊的那一欄 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
134.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那最右邊那一欄有這個偽造情勢那你們就把這個偽造情勢移給了最高檢嘛 對不對那個偽造情勢的樣態有哪些我們大部分看到的通常都是比如說像提議的書表感覺說不同的提議人但是他們的筆跡都是相 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
135.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
164.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
看起來那個筆跡筆觸都是相同筆跡是指前面的資料還是後面的簽名都有都有對對對那這種案子你們就認為就是說這個偽造情事然後就送給最高檢當然報告委員因為我們選委會當然我們不是認定有偽造沒有偽造的一個機關啦但是只是站在選委會的一個立場會覺得說就是會有疑似偽造這樣子的一個嫌疑啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
164.693 |
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175.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那你們會對各地方選委會送上來說認為這個偽造情勢啊你們覺得這不算偽造啊這哪算偽造你們會自己去過濾這件事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
178.188 |
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200.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
報告委員我們目前就是說我們目前是沒有看到那種明明看起來不是沒有疑似偽造完全沒有疑似偽造的狀況但是選委會又硬把它送上來的是沒有這樣子的一個狀況那你們也沒有譬如說他寫了100件偽造那你們就100件就通通送給最高檢了你們這裡頭有沒有徵檢過 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.51 |
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221.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
譬如說某一個選委會他說我們這一行有一百件尾照他送上來的報表一百件尾照包括後面的資料那你們看完之後說沒有啊這兩件就不是啊所以我們改送出去給最高檢的時候變成九十八件有沒有這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
223.317 |
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247.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對不起因為這是我們另外一個處事的業務啦但是以我們以我們移送的以我們在做移送的這件事來講的話因為學友會送上來的一定都是有疑似偽造的一個狀況啦是沒有碰到好那簡單講就是中選會基本上你們就是看資料你們也不會再有另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
248.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
264.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
階段的查證的作為啦我們會提委員會審議委員會也是看資料嘛委員會當場也不會去做任何的查證啦對不對因為你們沒有查證能力啊沒錯吧OK好那接下來我們請這個法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
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委員好部長這個中選會把這些偽造情事按照他們的說法送給了最高檢那最高檢會分到各地方的檢察署嘛那各地的檢察署就開始啟動相關的調查那這些調查現在出現了這些樣態因為有不同的地方的相關人員有些被強制處分了對吧那 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
302.25 |
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327.7 |
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各地的檢察官 有各地檢察官偵辦的方法手錄啦 大家風化不一樣那是個案的做法 他也會啟動不同的方式啦這個算是很正常 好那各地都 假設各地都查完了也大概有一個段落了請問法務部或最高檢或哪一個單位啊會去 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.838 |
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發現說 欸 為什麼A地檢署查了是這樣B地檢署查了這樣 C地檢署查了這樣欸 他們都長得很像欸會不會有另外一組人 發現他們查得很像所以把它視為組織犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
347.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這部分當然每個個案的證據情況是不一樣那組織犯罪有組織犯罪的一個過程要見但是如果說這裡面有合乎到組織犯罪過程要見當然這部分就檢察官就會去處理這個查到底有沒有這個組織犯罪的一個成立的問題那這個會是另外一組檢察官嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
371.018 |
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394.396 |
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因為你現在發給各地嘛,A地檢署、B地檢署、C地檢署嘛那這個地檢署他們都在辦嘛,那都在辦呢辦完之後,會不會有一個什麼會長的平台,哎喲,你那邊也這樣,我們這裡也是這樣,他們那邊也這樣那會不會有這樣的一個,我講機制好了,會不會有這樣的一個機制去把這些事情看一看,哎喲,好像是同樣的手法 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
395.197 |
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| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那另外又起一個案子 把這些同樣的手法呢 再去偵辦呃 這個最高檢是那個屬於督導機關嘛齁就是在選罷案件的一個督導機關如果說我向委員講這個情況 我相信最高檢一定會做一個統合的一個一個做一個一個討論 做一個規劃OK 好 所以現在還是各地各地的檢察署在偵辦 好 那在偵辦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
421.102 |
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440.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
進度啦 方法就法務部也沒辦法去指揮啦就各地的檢察官自己去用嘛那跟各地方法院之間要不要做強制處分那也都是個案啦好 那我再問一個問題就是說在這些案子裡頭提供名冊啦提供名冊有很多種啦去郵輪的名冊啦什麼社團的名冊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
443.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
461.39 |
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提供名冊沒有當事人同意然後就交給了某一個人然後那個人就去抄了所謂的聯署書也沒有徵得原來的人同意啦我把它切清楚說提供名冊的這些人他在法律上會違反什麼規定提供名冊看有沒有那個違照 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
462.533 |
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477.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
簽章或者死亡連署的一個情形那如果單純的這個送他沒有去參與這個行為那可能這部分就會比較沒辦法去成立這個犯罪除非有共同範例的一個聯絡OK 就是說我把這個名冊交給一組人不要一直給我偷 給我 你要給我什麼名冊給我然後我就把這個名冊給了這一組人那這組人要去幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
485.899 |
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505.071 |
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我也沒事就對了這組人去做了什麼壞事我有關嗎就要看有沒有共同範囍的聯絡有沒有共同範囍的聯絡這個要去查個案去做一個檢查要去認定那拿到這個名冊的人他就開始抄寫個人的資料抄完之後後面又去偽造簽名 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
506.345 |
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525.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那這一塊這一塊就是這一個偽造文書對不對那這個偽造文書是抄一筆就一條罪還是這整個案子假設我負責抄一百筆那我還是我是一百條罪還是我還是只有一條罪這個是一筆一罪一罪一划嘛因為他那個備案是單獨的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
527.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
544.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
一個個人資料是一個人是專屬他的個人資料嘛對所以是抄一個應該是我的看法啦是一罪啦就是一人一罪有一個人被抄了然後這個人也不知道那不知道那他去抄了就講違照他的簽名那負責抄了這個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
545.919 |
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562.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他就是一罪一罰一個名冊一個資料就一罰嘛好那第三組人是這樣就是說他這個拿到了這個抄的名冊的時候他也搞不清楚啦他也搞不清楚他就整宗抹去中選委可是他可能是領先人他是領先然後他把這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
563.799 |
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579.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
委員各支法或委召文書的這些資料拿去交給公務機關然後去申請一件事情 這是提議嘛 去申請一件事情在法律上這一組 他們都沒有去連署喔他們就在想要拔的拔拔的去中選會 中選會就把它收建了喔因為你們現在查都會去問那個送 送的那個人嘛 叫做領銜人嘛送的那個人 這個人會不會有罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
589.677 |
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608.951 |
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就要看有沒有共同犯例的聯絡他知不知道這裡面是不是違照的簽章他如果知道他就有這當然是有共同犯例的聯絡他如果都不知道那不知道的話因為我們不處罰除非有過失的一個明文處罰過失的一個情形或者的話這個是就要看個案的一個好那我就問到這裡謝謝 |