| IVOD_ID |
160473 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160473 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-23T09:49:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-23T10:03:30+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/27ac2f54fdf75cc00d578c006c1457e67fe8c6252e35fc4a87b5e96e7cd6ee722e4e34333fe8e0c25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:49:03 - 10:03:30 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及衛生福利部首長就「美國實施進口產品國安調查對我國產業之影響及因應之道」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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請郭部長好 請郭部長委員長保定 我曾經出席一場我們台灣半導體產業發展跟挑戰的這個公聽會那專家學者都問了一個很重要的問題他說台積電宣布去美國投資一千億啊到底來投審會 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
52.022 |
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他有沒有申請了 你剛才說是沒有嘛 對不對到現在都還沒有來申請嘛所以他是已經公佈了 可是到投審會都還沒有申請那你剛剛又回答 你說要不要審要看廠商的決定你意思就是要看台積電自己決定要不要來台積電第一個 台積電不是國營公司 |
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75.395 |
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台積電只是我們國內的廠商國內廠商對外要投資必須要經過我們投審會的許可那委員這個是很清楚的事情他公布說我要到哪個地方去投資這是他講過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
91.431 |
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那但是他錢要匯出去這個投資一定要得到我們的許可啊那進度上面就是到現在為止他也還沒來申請啊這個是一個事實嘛不是這樣子嗎對我急著要跟你講一個非常明確來看一個產業創新條例產創條例第22條的第一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
112.651 |
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135.93 |
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明文規定,我們台灣的公司,不是國營私營而已,當然包括台積電嘛從事國外投資者應於實施投資之前,向中央主管機關申請核准下面寫的是說15億以下被查啦,那當然意思就是15億以上一定要經過申請而且就是要核准 |
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136.65 |
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那是法治國家嘛 對不對是啊一定要照這個法來做那這個有什麼問題呢一定要 所以一定要來申請嘛你認為這有什麼問題呢所以博士不是你剛才說的說我們什麼抽象來割定嘛 對不對他一定要申請他要去投資要投資的之前他一定要申請他只是講說他要投資喔不是說他已經落實在那邊投資喔所以這個委員你這個質疑上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
165.478 |
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段距要弄清楚所以藝術的你剛剛修正剛剛講說不是廠商決定啦對不對等於說一定要來嘛對不對然後投審會一定要審嘛好這是第一個慢慢保定來來等一下投審會一定要審不是廠商來決定這是第一個點第二更重要的國科會對於核心的技術他是有清單的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
188.407 |
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台積電當然一定要在這個清單裡面嘛 對不對是啊第三個博定你想要投審會的到時候要審有哪些單位要進來審我們相關的單位都要進來審跟這個跟這個投資有相關的單位都要進來審有沒有國安局當然有對嘛 對不對所以你看國科會就是核心的技術他要進來審台積電一定是要的嘛第二個連國安會跟國安局因為它是個國安問題嘛所以我們做個簡單的這個結論第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
217.557 |
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243.778 |
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不能夠只是聽 等台積電所以法律上要審查 第二個到時候牽扯到核心技術要好好審會不會外移要審 第三個牽扯到國家安全要審另外有一個觀念非常重要 柏定你這段時間一定聽到很多聲音嘛很多人講說台積電馬上就去宣布 網牌就先丟出去啦結果後來換了一個32%嘛應該很多人在跟你講我們的政府 我們的政府委員你現在這樣齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
248.477 |
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254.924 |
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我們要當台積電很重要的後盾你要當國家很重要的後盾你不要變成是魏哲家一個人在跟川普談 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
255.987 |
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284.221 |
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對不對 也不要變成賴清德總統一個人要去跟你我們國家應該是每個人都是他重要的後盾嘛你要好好用你這張王牌 破損會是你很重要一張王牌也是對我們台灣可以爭取到爭取到把這個關稅降低很重要的王牌 對不對台積電 我想魏董事長是非常優秀的經營者他都 最起碼他是比我更優秀 更聰明 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
286.3 |
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304.006 |
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是不是比委員更聰明我就不太清楚啦不過他做的決定我們是非常的欽佩啦所以委員你來這個challenge這個命題我覺得是有點多慮了好不好這不是多慮啦我們是在談法治欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
305.58 |
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332.321 |
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我們從沒違法啊你投審會就不要開了 你就廢掉嗎你投審會到底該不該審 要不要審我們當然要審啦我們現在跟你講 你叫政回歸你這段時間很多國內的人 專家寫審你我開公司你他們講你不能講說叫政回歸喔這是統計學的名詞你不能用在這個政治上面喔太多人在提醒你這張王牌要好好用 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
333.402 |
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348.576 |
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你之前就是因為 之前先主動去了之後對不對 換了一個32%嘛那國內很多人罵你那我們今天要談的一個主要的問題是什麼要善用這個王牌 讓我們決定你跟我跟陀神會這件事情 不是這樣子來評論的啦 對不對當然你會發現 太陽不是從北邊起來是從西邊起來說我們就可以討論這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
359.616 |
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387.121 |
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部長我們今天討論的命題是你跟我跟我們國人包括投審會投審會有沒有依法行事我們在跟川普當高官所以一個很重要的這個王牌跟後盾要不要投審會當然要依法行事投審會在進行的過程之中是他把案子送進來我們開始採取我們的這個工作嘛他就要三個禮拜啊你怎麼跟我們講一天三個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
389.521 |
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401.296 |
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就是你不要只有好像是投降 對不對我們在討論是什麼 投審會發揮它的功能嘛你要很清楚 例如在美國 川普也知道我們還有一個投審會啊其實公平會的責任也很重要啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
402.441 |
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426.949 |
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如果投審會有發揮功能公平會有發揮功能我們去跟美國談的時候我們就會跟他要求啊你要降低我們的這個關稅啊這變成一個籌碼嘛你現在我今天跟你談的你不要把這個籌碼丟掉你跟我跟投審會都要當台積電當我們國家去談高關稅把它降下來重要的後盾不是這樣嗎是不是這樣你認為一千億就可以解決這個問題嗎所以你認為還要再更多的這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
429.052 |
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450.81 |
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你說台積電還要再投資嗎我沒有說台積電要更多啦那為什麼要更多啊他就不是更煩惱如果部長像你講的部長像你講的人民還是更多Apple就五千億美金NVIDIA也五千億美金別人投資然後這個美國的softbank也是五千億美金我們這樣的講法部長你這樣越講台灣人民可能會越擔心了台積電到美國去投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
457.595 |
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474.653 |
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當然他有某部分對台美關係是正面的嘛對不對可是他投資那邊一定會影響到台灣嘛他的金額就那麼多啊總投資金額就那麼多啊啊你剛剛講一千億我們就很擔心已經就是說不是不能去要把它審好而且作為我們降低關稅一個重要的籌碼對不對我同意在談判的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
478.297 |
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485.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
而且裡面有重點一個是金額太大就會排擠到國內投資在北壘我剛才在說的核心技術為什麼投資人會要省 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
488.218 |
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514.65 |
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牽扯到核心技術牽扯到國家安全所以要好好審嘛我現在不是說叫我現在今天提醒你的是我們要共同做我們台積電跟降低關稅的一個重要的籌碼當時王牌啊現在人民欸你這次沒有聽到嗎太多的產官學界很多民眾講說不要馬上就投降你們王牌在哪裡川普跟哲文斯基在討論的時候一共上你小哲你哲文斯基你手上沒有籌碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
516.394 |
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545.385 |
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我們現在手上有什麼籌碼部長你的歷史地位很重要我們手上有國審會的網牌我們籌碼也很多啦好不好但是你剛才講的這個部分我們也可以列入這個籌碼考慮之一啦但是我們籌碼有很多報告委員我們不是只有一個籌碼請你相信政府國審會甚至公平會這兩張網牌都非常重要好不好非常重要要善用這個網牌談判不是用威脅的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
546.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
556.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
怎麼是威脅呢法治的功能怎麼是威脅不是法治的功能這個大家都知道你不是說你會打橋牌嗎你都不用喊牌嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
558.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
587.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你為什麼會打橋牌 這個不用喊喔不用喊喔你的投審會完全沒有功能是吧 馬上就要投降不是啦 你怎麼會又歪樓歪到投審會沒有功能投審會的功能明文寫在那邊非常的清楚你告訴我哪一條是沒有功能所以我們今天有共識嘛 就是要好好審嘛特別是核心技術核心技術跟國安嘛另外我一點點就發現主席已經站起來了那昨天我這個公聽會啊宗教寫者在問一個很重要的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
588.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
604.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們要幫我們的半導體這個產業啊水跟電很重要 對不對這兩個都在管的嘛最近啊 最近啊水電都碰到兩個 都是漲價的問題嘛台積電之前 魏哲家已經講了他在全世界那麼多廠 設廠台灣的電價已經是最貴的那電價還要再找嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
610.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
630.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
電價漲不漲不是我能決定的報告委員我已經講過非常多次電價的決定是由電價審議委員來做決定好不好部長你以後不要再講這句話了一個經濟部長說他完全對電價不關心沒有掌握我不是不關心你的話不能夠你不能用這個話來說喔報告委員你不能這樣問喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
635.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
663.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
你怎麼可以這樣問 我說我不關心 開什麼玩笑我能不關心嗎 那是我的事業部 我能不關心嗎你剛才的意思好像完全都是 什麼時候就推給電價審理委員會講說意思啦 你關不關心你孩子你剛剛的意思是什麼 推給電價審理委員會啊大家也知道電價審理委員會到底要幹嘛你在問電價 不是問電力公司對不對 你不能用這個假設A然後來問B |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
665.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
683.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
哪有這樣打法所以你身為經濟部長是不是要注意電價不要一直漲的問題我經濟部長關心的就是民生經濟所以你不要回答像剛剛你說這個電價審議委員會啊你本來就要關心你問我電價決定是誰決定當然是電價審議委員決定那你要關心嘛對不對經濟部長當然要關心這個而且是因為這段時間電價一直漲嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
693.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
706.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
連美國商會每次來談第一個案子都講我們的電價一直漲三年漲五次他每次都來投資都不曉得怎麼辦我剛剛跟你講了台積電的衛生價都漲了電價三年漲五次別人三年漲十次多得很 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
710.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
713.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
請你不要衍生問題好不好這個話題非常明確的話題你又把它衍生到別的地方去好像你的問題是只有yes or no是非題 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
730.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
755.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你能不能夠出一些選擇題或者出一些填充題或者問答題好不好我們做個簡單的 因為部長說要很簡短的所以七部長對整個半導體產業發展很重要的就是水跟電你剛講的 我就問這些你會去關心讓電價不要一直漲 漲太多這個是 可以回答了吧 對不對不要隱身 可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
757.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
765.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
因為歷任的經濟部長 全世界經濟部長這樣問有人會不回答S的啦你說叫我問簡單的 全世界哪一個經濟部長歷任哪一個經濟部長 我剛問的問題 讓電價不要一直漲 讓它穩定連這個都不能打嗎電價穩定啊 電價穩定是哪一個價格穩定 你要先講 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
781.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
796.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
對不對是穩定現在的價格嗎你要穩定現在的價格嗎還是穩定以前的價格還是穩定未來的價格這個不能這樣講因為你的問題非常的犀利那我很怕中你的標 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
798.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
809.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
沒有犀利啦 我是在幫你當你做前面人的犀利啊你可以做一個好的經濟部長啊市開委員 我想補到藝術都夠了啦藝術都夠了啦 部長也很坦誠的回應啦他會關心這個水電的議題啦所以我做兩個簡單的結論價格問題你不要給他回答好啦 部長 所以我們做兩個結論啦第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
821.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
841.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
台積電 台積電他已經宣布了1000例 剛剛部長又講 可能搞不好還要更多嘛那一定投審會到時候要審的時候 要當我們全民 當台積電的貨頓把它當成一張王牌 不要馬上就投降 甚至不要一直沒有審 一直拖延部長我跟你講個內幕 像這段時間很多的半達體相關產業 最近都出去了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
842.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
859.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
很多都超過這15億的啦第二個水電的問題很重要我相信你跟全世界跟歷任的部長一樣你會去注意到水電水電的穩定性水電很重要這個是不用再提啦對不對因為水電當然很重要我跟你的講法是一樣的 |