| IVOD_ID |
160313 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160313 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-17T10:48:13+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-17T11:04:04+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:51 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c2d17dc46794b9a432b21395a6415166db8644d80871ec8675aa7aeb25548b490c9ded73aea8ac595ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:48:13 - 11:04:04 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、外交部就「因應美國退出巴黎氣候協定並提出對等關稅，對國內產業淨零轉型造成衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請環境部部長、勞動部、教育部、經濟部針對「國內校園、賣場及工作場域之室內空氣污染物管理及防制精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【專題報告綜合詢答】
【4月16日及17日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席,有請彭部長請彭部長部長,美國加大越大,排在也是全球第二大所以美國的一舉一動都會衝擊到全球各國的經濟政策的發展這不爭的事實,就會比這次政府調高關稅 |
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31.385 |
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那引發各國的這樣的一連串的我稱作化學反應然後也讓各界開始擔憂貴重一道全球減碳禁營的這樣的一個腳步但是我是發現本部長在媒體上的發言都表現得相當樂觀的態度認為減碳上與美國有非常大的合作空間那部長可以看 |
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你的說法在同影片的1月22還有3月31的報導你大致上歸納兩點第一個就是全球減碳的趨勢不可擋然後台灣將積極強化與美國合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.71 |
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不是只看川普要轉彎的,不用做這個減碳,而是要聚焦如何加大與美國的合作力道,做更有效的對接,沒有錯嗎?這不想講的齁?那剛剛之前講的那個河流的事情有斷章取義,這部分應該是沒有啦,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
91.514 |
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我不很對部長的樂觀但是這個前提還是必須要審慎才能夠樂觀川普在1月20號上任之後就當天宣布要退出巴黎協定 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
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然後對這個全球減碳的計畫這個一定會造成一定的這樣的一個衝擊但是同時我們也想部長有沒有注意到紐約時報在4月10號有一篇報導據傳美國環境保護署EPA目前正推動大幅削減溫室氣體通報計畫的範圍這將使美國多數大型污染不再需要公開揭露其發展及其導致地球融化的氣體排放量 |
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所以這雖然沒有得到美國官方的證實但實際上紐約時報還是一個權益性的一個媒體我想他一定有所本所以我想對川普上面做的作為 |
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147.304 |
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我們可以發現它是比較維護企業的利益啦但是這種作為對減碳淨零的其實都有巨大的衝擊陳如部長早上的報告當然是氣候受害的國家我想環境部可以樂觀但是相關的因應必須提早 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
166.522 |
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189.381 |
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要有作為 部長可以認同嗎非常認同 包委員你剛才說的那個美國環保署他真的是的確在修改各種的空污或是污染的這個標準在放寬當中而且是要以經濟這個讓美國再次偉大為一個前提來發展環保那的確跟我們目前環境部推動的這個台灣的環境保護是有一點點不大一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
189.921 |
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209.489 |
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但是我們目前來看的話因為這個只是一個短期的現象我們還是很謹慎的來因應各種未來的可能它的變化到底衝擊有多大我們的確是很謹慎的來但是因為近年還是我們還是要樂觀啦還是要努力鼓勵大家去做所以謹慎要審慎這個台灣今年的攤費費率就是剩下5月就馬上進行TEST的申報對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
215.031 |
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238.573 |
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然後明年5月正式開始繳交114年度的排放量的碳匯目前預定的期準應該都沒有改變嗎?沒有改變這個如果都沒有改變的情況之下美國對等關稅把台灣列為提高到32%的國家雖然現在已經剩下不到90天的談判期那萬一 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
241.838 |
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266.682 |
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確定過這90天之後確定有某些的碳排產業成為關稅的受債戶環境部這邊有什麼因應的方案嗎包委因為我們現在錢是明年的5月31號才要繳所以我們有一段的時間可以不是馬上的就是可以去做決定所以我們會看例如說90天後現在只剩下八十幾天了那個90天八九十天以後 |
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267.362 |
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291.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
到底實際上受多少影響甚至到明年我們會配合來進行滾動式的調整基本上我的理念還是一樣要讓企業可以活下去活下去然後他們需要一些幫忙我們額外會爭取預算來幫產業的忙就是做企業的後盾嘛對對對所以我們的盡力目標不會走位投入但達成的時間點是我有變化或是要因應企業實際的狀況這個都是要列入考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
292.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
315.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
或立刻去了解這個排蛋倒露的狀況聽聽他們的意見我們一定做到後盾這個我跟部長的想法是一致因為如果對於關稅受到影響的碳排產業部分大小環境部、政府都是必須要做他們最堅強的後盾但部長你也曾經說過今年環境部的預算遭申請差不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
317.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
323.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
3.54%嘛 已經4%了那凍結12.83%那氣候變遷署所當其衝然後可能影響到這個500場的排碳大戶的碳匯自主減量計畫審查進度以及到歐盟協調這個碳匯扣底的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
337.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
343.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
並會減少台灣參與國際氣候談判的機會。所以環境部氣候署自己也已經靈菩薩過疆了,自身難保了,要怎麼在這次的關稅當產業的後盾,輔導產業順利減淡減輕損失。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
354.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
371.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好,報告委員這個部分我們是補強的方式第一個我們額外在行政院在爭取一些支持啦經費上的一個支持那另外一個呢是我們在經費上也在做一些移環經費行政院也是你不是要過將喔對,等於是我們大家都在很辛苦的來面對啦也希望未來立法院能夠高抬貴手齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
373.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
397.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
還是請部長是不是有相關的一些因應作為兩週內給委員會做一個參考好不好好沒問題那今天有兩個專題嘛第二個就是我們除了要因應這個川普的對等關稅造成碳排淨的衝擊外另外是針對國內校園賣場及工作場域之室內空氣污染物的管理及防治的經濟作為我對安排這個專題是不僅是本會期的開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
403.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
424.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
CO2的數值的監控儀器發現各大委員會開會時廠長也標到1000ppm以上超過環境庇護的精英值我想同時委員會的很多委員也都一直在關心這個校園、實驗室、場館等室內空瓶的標準目前坦白講 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
426.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
451.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
看不到一個更積極的管理因應作為這是第一件事情我要直白講的就是說臺灣的室內空氣品質管理法從一百年在立法院立法完成之後實際上是坦平啦實際上是坦平齁這個跟民眾稀疑相關的一部法律齁可以從立法到之間整整十四年完全不用修法也完全沒有檢視自我自在難行 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
452.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
462.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個是真的有很大的問題齁如果這個法律專門完美就不會有以下這一則的新聞發生齁部長看一下這叫什麼LALAPO在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
475.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
482.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
南港你還練得清楚,你不曉得他在哪裡,我還練不清楚過一個拉拉破變成人體 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
484.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
508.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
空氣清淨機逛到一半眼睛腫痛然後爆過敏性的睫毛炎一票網友也受害那台北市在3月20號的新開幕的一個購物中心四天吸引差不多20萬人潮結果有民眾在網路反映然後有投影片這個甲酸味確實蠻重的在一樓就可以聞到 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
509.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
524.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
然後樓上味道很重真的不想待很久這是網友的一些說法然後還說我的眼睛超不舒服的大家進去當人體空氣清淨機然後去完過大過敏味道超刺鼻等等等我就不再贅述了賣場回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
526.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
542.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
目前商場仍在部分櫃位正在裝修中但基於施工的規範進行空瓶的數值也符合標準並無超標的實際狀況來發生雖然每個人對氣味感受不同但仍會針對這個設施內的空瓶持續的監測與留心 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
548.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
560.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我要表達說民眾一邊逛街,賣場一邊裝修,那民眾管理有甲酸胃、甲醛胃、眼睛痛、味道刺鼻,賣場還說一切合格,逛街民眾的感受度,所以這到底是誰的問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
563.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
582.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
今天我們有邀請基部跟勞動部一起出席當逛街的民眾有這種問題人家賣場裡面還有貴位的員工嘛對不對還有施工的工人他們就不會受到影響也許員工跟工作的勞工在場裡整整待了一天到底他們的安全誰來把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
584.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
589.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那我再回到這個數據啦,稀厚度的數值,超過1000ppm,我們委會會,環境部會給我們訊息說,就會產生頭痛啦、視罪啦、反射減退、倦怠等症狀,賣場開幕4天,然後擁護20萬人潮,這個稀厚度到底是誰來把關? |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
607.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
633.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
包委員這個其實三月的時候因為發生這個問題的時候環保局台北市環保局已經去查了那查驗的結果還沒有正式公開那目前我們來看應該不是甲醛可能有別的這個污染物現在等到他們正式的公佈我們才可以對外說那目前這個Lalapo因為他目前他還沒有依據我們這個室內空瓶法的這個維護管理計畫跟設置專職人員所以其實目前台北市環保局正在處理當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
634.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
656.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好,部長你答問我,台北市環保局有去稽查嘛,到現在還沒有結論嘛。對,對,對。3月20號開幕了。對,3月21號他就去了。對,3月21號就去了。對,對,對。去了,你知道他去幹嘛?稽查嘛,對不對?去稽查,對,對,對。好,那你看這個過程。3月20開幕,3月21號他就去了,是不是去了啊?3月24要求四次專職人員,然後4月2號,北市環保局請檢測公司採樣。對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
663.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
681.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你覺得這程序沒有問題?有改進的空間啊?沒有把我跳過去嗎?你跟環保局不是一樣21號20號開幕連續4天21號去採樣然後現在24號要求設置專責人員4月2號北市環保局才請檢測公司去採樣足足過了快兩個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
693.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
713.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個程序部長你怎麼看?他到底要採什麼東西?他採的是例如說因為通常我們這個新裝潢部長打我他可能不是什麼假不是什麼什麼已經很難去論斷了啦對不對開幕四天二十萬他到開幕四三月二十號他到四月二號才去採樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
717.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
727.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這應該要更積極的來管理啦所以這就是有問題嘛 對不對好 你再看齁 環境部訂的CO2監測值是1000ppm我們責任署訂的CO2標準是5000ppm沒有錯吧 對吧這兩個人物差為什麼這麼大我來 署長我給他叫一遍啦你兩個單獨沒得說就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
743.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
757.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
跟委員報告這個兩個法它適用的環境跟對象不一樣在子彈法的話它適用的是在特定的場域有使用到化學物質所以它在這個或是說剛剛委員提到這個5000 ppm這部分當時在 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
760.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
779.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
跟學者專家在制定的時候是有參考國外的一個標準目前英國跟美國都還是才工作場所裡面還是才5000的PBM我想他的考量是因為在特定的工作場所裡面他可能會產生CO2像是我們在做那個碳酸飲料的工廠裡面他就會有可能他的副產品就是CO2所以他在這個整個當時在設這個標準的時候就採取比較高的一個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
783.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
812.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
但是我們是在治安法的部分是用這個整個安全衛生的控制措施在避免這個勞工遭受到危害我應該剛剛都有把問題挑出來講了治安署站在治安署的本業裡面去看待他可能是在一個勞動的一個環境裡面但是你看這一個事件裡面他不是有賣場他有勞動的環境到時候你們兩個單位到的時候一個講一千一個講五千 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
814.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
831.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
你們可以在現場裡面去做這樣的分開去認定嗎?我想也有困難吧?這個是屬於我們這個室內空瓶法的公告的場所,所以他要照我們的一簽。是,但是他也當下還在持續施工。 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
832.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
853.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我剛剛有講了啊,它當下在持續的施工啊,這賣場自己講的啊所以我才講說一部法律營業,等於是兩部法律在看同一個場子但是有不一樣的樣態,一個是賣場它現在在營業,另外一個它還持續在加工那這顯然不是很大的吞吐跟矛盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
855.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
872.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
包委員我的認定是只要是室內空瓶它只要是有人潮可以進去的話就應該適用於我們的法令那勞動部這邊應該是屬於這種所謂的工廠型的在施工型的這個基本上只要有我們的民眾去就應該適用我們1000ppm的規定不不不 等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
874.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
890.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這兩個樣態都持續在進行中兩個樣態在發生中嘛對不對我還是要回歸到一句話就對了啦我覺得我們國內對室內空瓶的這樣的一個要求跟標準跟積極的作為真的是很薄弱我才會講說這部法律躺了14年了通過之後不等不等了 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
891.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
915.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這不對啦,這不對啦,好不好?我好像包含這個稽查程序,地方政府是這種稽查的程序,又更不對嘛,對不對?是不是請部長,可以召集,包含我們未來的署長,大家一起共同召開一次,針對室內空瓶的這樣一個秀啊,包含用這樣的這一次的這個事件來看,不管是治安署,不管是我們環境部,到底應該如何來? |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
916.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
939.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
把這個法可以修得更完備啦好不好因為我們也提出了我們的空污法可能未來會開始研議要來修法那我們也把這個室內空瓶這個法也把它放進去一起來看這個事情一個月內嘛可以吧這個來得及嗎應該來得及啦我們先開會言商好不好先開會言商然後再給委員答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
941.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
949.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我還是要求一個時間啦你一個月不行不然最少兩個月嘛可以吧好謝謝好謝謝下一位我們請陀軒吉委員 |