IVOD_ID |
160012 |
IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160012 |
日期 |
2025-04-09 |
會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-7 |
會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
會議資料.屆 |
11 |
會議資料.會期 |
3 |
會議資料.會次 |
7 |
會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
影片種類 |
Clip |
開始時間 |
2025-04-09T13:08:28+08:00 |
結束時間 |
2025-04-09T13:24:07+08:00 |
影片長度 |
00:15:39 |
支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/984603a5a250cdce64d00ca05a295b0c79a8b3a3b5782fdd5ac7c33fa4103456f82bc5d892225b265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
委員發言時間 |
13:08:28 - 13:24:07 |
會議時間 |
2025-04-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議(事由:邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、數位發展部部長、教育部部長、大陸委員會主任委員、內政部移民署署長、國家安全局局長及國家人權委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「言論自由不在?界線誰說了算!國家介入特定政治言論之法律邊界」進行專題報告,並備質詢。) |
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現在梁文傑 梁副主委還有這個移民署的陳副署長好 副署長委員好文傑 我們兩個認識三十幾年了年輕的時候 我們心都是柔軟的可是心不要變硬 更不要變成是壞的 |
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特別人在公門要好修行政府存在的目的就是服務人民啊不是製造問題啊你再從今天一早這麼多人在問你的你們把它定位成是陸配我看到他們的陳情有些很多都是他們小孩來陳情的他們貼的文章 |
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如果是我們很年輕的時候文姐你跟我都很年輕我覺得你應該是會掉眼淚的我很希望你那個初心是還在的我看的是難過的是明明本來沒有事情啊為什麼搞出來這麼大的一個讓那麼多的家庭不安我昨天在緊急找了副署長到我辦公室對不對你們發出去的這個一萬兩千封欸 |
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你剛在講檢舉你有檢舉你就辦可是檢舉要辦你也要舉證啊你怎麼一下撒一萬兩千多封出去一萬兩千個家庭而且你知道你現在對象是誰嗎這些人已經來台灣三十幾年 四十幾年 五十幾年他們不只是台灣之子的老婆台灣人的老婆 台灣之子的母親他們就是個台灣人啊 |
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你做台灣人做20多年 做30多年 做40多年很多年紀都很長了 6 7 10歲了你讓人家叫他去拿21年前 30幾年前的東西出來你不強人所難嗎我剛剛在講政府要做什麼事情 政府要服務人民嘛你海基會 你的陸委會的功能在哪裡你的移民署功能在哪裡你一直叫他去補證件 |
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很多政見政府應該幫他找啊是不是我先提五個最具體的我們先來看一下五大具體的要求我先從第二個開始講你現在叫我們這個陸配你在民國93年3月1號修了兩岸人民關係條例之後你說本來要他註銷他的戶籍 |
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你本來六個月內要完成啊你本身沒有好好去追對不對這是不是政府本來就是失職 怠惰責任在政府嘛政府要去幫忙解決問題啊所以我第一項我基本的要求民國93年3月1號以前他已經定居了對啊 文哲你也說啊他如果已經取得身份證 從寬嘛對不對我明確要求 |
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在這93年3月1號之前已經來台定居了就排除了也就是你這次花了一萬兩千多份不要再追了這是第一項你這樣是不是就解決問題了我剛剛講了那麼多的台灣支持的父母的母親台灣人的老婆那麼多的台灣人就不會有這個困擾了嘛把這個時間點定出來第一項 境外責事啊你這叫他補正啊 海際會為什麼要存在 |
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為什麼要存在海基會海基會為什麼沒有被裁掉 為什麼要設立他不就是要幫我們人民服務嗎他要做認證的工作啊 是不是所以現在有碰到問題了 因為打電話或者到海基會去申請就好不是去找那個台六要回一趟 任何一個人要跑一趟大陸多遠啊不用工作嗎往返要多久 去還要再辦 |
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海基會存在的目的是什麼所以讓我們的陸配 我們的人民直接到海基會去海基會辦理那應該有的功能海基會跟大陸 海協會是對口的嘛去查啊海基會去查 到底他的戶籍還在不在啊對不對啊如果沒這問題 為什麼跑那麼一趟海基會存在才有才有才有它的價值嘛要不然拆掉啊 |
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另外接下來就是移民署給你入委會的功能 第三點你的目的就是要他放棄大陸這個戶籍嘛 對不對你做一個公版的申請書啊我就是要證明嘛 對不對然後你給他一個公版的這個申請書他簽名 簽完以後到這個法院去認證不就完成程序了嗎 |
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所以從政府的角色從海基會一直到領土委會到移民署這問題不就解決了嗎為什麼搞這麼複雜呢為什麼要擾民呢甚至還牽扯到身份的這個檢驗還有歧視的問題只要你回到初心以前的梁文傑 少年的梁文傑心是軟的 不是硬的 不是黑的政府該有的功能要扮演做到前面這幾項問題是不是都解決了 |
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所以我要再問一個你現在很嚴重就是叫人家三個月內要完成這個事情你們自己人家打電話去問說什麼程序要多久你們要回答說至少大概兩個月給你們多一個月時間太緊迫了啦至少把這個時間延長多一兩年另外我一個要求除了做剛剛的現在很多人民都碰到問題了我特別跟你講這邊你們刨掉的 |
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你不只製造了社會的對立,你刨掉了台灣很重要的根民主、法治、人權跟人道,都台灣很重要的你把這根刨掉了,然後製造了社會的對立讓很多人惶惶不安,連老蔣你們也刨掉你們民進黨自己的根啦你去看看臉書上面,還有很多來陳情的你們連民進黨的立委現在,辦公室電話都被打爆啦 |
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裡面有些留言說 我長期都是民進黨的支持者啊你現在有媽媽回去找一個三十幾年前 四十幾年前的東西找得到嗎連民進黨那些青鳥 那些支持者都反彈了你們在刨自己的根啊這些人本來就是在台灣人啊 人家住這麼久啊為什麼要圍爛人家呢最重要的 政府的角色扮演完以後你要的 |
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就可以完成這個法律的程序嘛對不對所以我明確要求你在最近一個月內北中南去辦公開說明會請聽到底碰到什麼問題幫他們解決問題文傑跟移民署副市長我們來做這五件事情好不好委員可以讓我們有時間回答嗎請說 |
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對我們來講其實不管是93年3月1號以前還是之後其實我們都是不准有雙重身份的那今天之所以會有3月1號這個事情是因為當初的修法我們現在是follow法律如果說立法院覺得說這個93年3月1號以前應該排除那老實講這個不是我們行政機關可以答應的 |
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你當初在九十一年三月一號修兩岸人民關係條例的時候你當初很多人就已經拿到身分證了耶那你要的話你當初你就一直追他說你六個月內沒有完成放棄對不對你六個月你自己沒做所以我說你是怠惰又失職啊你這個轉嫁變成要人民來負擔這個事情咧 |
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法律追訴期間沒有那麼長啦 都是知道當初我也不是陸委會 你也不是立委嘛你現在來追 是當初的陸委會 陸委會失職啊那你怎麼反而現在怪到人民身上 要人民來負這個責任不過委員提出的一個方案 其中第三點我一再強調 就是說如果他是當事人 真的沒有辦法 |
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拿到文件的話我們會有別的措施我們絕對不會說你真的沒有辦法拿到文件然後我真的把你身份取消我們不會這樣做但是很多人我還是要再強調一遍很多人都說他自己沒辦法拿到但是實際上最後都是可以的 |
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我只能夠這樣講所以我說你政府自己要先辦年好嘛你就讓他去海基會海基會去幫他查啊你入會的功能你移民署的功能你把那個放棄的那個 |
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公版的申請書給他就好啊你給我這個問題啊是不是要達到法律上要的二跟三趕快做可以嗎關於如果他真的沒有辦法那用切結的方式這是一個可以考慮的方向用切結的方式如果真的沒有辦法拿到文傑不要用個案處理啦你給一個公版嘛你所謂切結就是說他這裡是找不到對不對他確實很困難嘛由陸委會跟移民署提供一個公版切結說我確實已經放棄了找不到 |
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那你經過這個法院的這個認證嘛 對不對那就完成這個程序啦OK齁所以陸委會跟移民組委做這樣的事情齁在這裡跟委員報告那個副組長他是你的指導單位嘛對不對是不是你除非是要推翻他的要不然你不用再說了趕快做這件事好不好那個等一下等一下等一下讓副組委先講那個你什麼時候可以把這個公版拿出來 |
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這個竊竊的這個官板好不好因為禮拜可以讓大家自由上去自己是可以下載嘛那個委員我再說明一下對於那些真的沒有辦法回去拿到文件的人用竊竊的方式是可以考慮的方式但是首先我們要先確定他到底是不是 |
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真的沒有辦法拿到否則我們對那些真的有回去拿這些文件然後回來繳交的這些陸配也不公平你叫人家跑一趟就已經是擾民了也不公平你存在價值就是服務民眾你本來海基會可以做的因為現在14萬定居的13萬人都交了嘛那比較近期了嘛對不對比較碰到問題大部分都是在93年3月1號以前的啦你那個一萬兩千份最主要就是這個嘛對不對 |
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693.635 |
transcript.whisperx[25].text |
是不是 跟全民講清楚為什麼今天那麼多人這麼氣憤是因為你現在發出的一萬兩千份都是93年3月1號以前21年生的他放在這邊就住了40年50年這個都是連長的我看現在上面抗議的人都是二代啦都是年輕人啦媽媽在這裡住這麼久啊你叫我現在六七十歲啊七八十歲啊你要想要叫我拿三四十年前的東西這不是擾民不是失職是什麼 |
transcript.whisperx[26].start |
694.795 |
transcript.whisperx[26].end |
720.702 |
transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我覺得對我們來說身體健康跟年紀這些東西我們都會考量最關鍵的我們要解決問題嘛你現在那個你剛說要有一個切結是可以的嘛對不對那你一個禮拜內把這個切結的光板寫出來放到網路上讓大家可以下載或者有需要的人就到移民署去拿嘛我看移民署現在大概每天都是一缸子人去啊對不對 |
transcript.whisperx[27].start |
722.134 |
transcript.whisperx[27].end |
729.997 |
transcript.whisperx[27].text |
電話被打爆了 現在人忙到連電話都打不進去了 對不對那你要想辦法解決問題啊發委員 我們已經設有專線 還有專郵也就是讓民眾可以傳輸的一個便利 |
transcript.whisperx[28].start |
738.342 |
transcript.whisperx[28].end |
754.327 |
transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們本署的網站也會公告專用電子的信箱諮詢的專線還有對外的Q&A然後我們會製作懶人包讓民眾知道要怎麼來處理那最重要的是我們要請聽這些 |
transcript.whisperx[29].start |
756.604 |
transcript.whisperx[29].end |
782.086 |
transcript.whisperx[29].text |
接獲通知的民眾如果他不能回去大陸他的原因他的狀態是怎麼樣我們收整把他分類然後再跟陸委會來做言商現在我接到的這個投訴還有現在在網路跟媒體上看到的就是很多人根本就是去電話打不接的打進去了你們就叫他第一句話嘛去回大陸 |
transcript.whisperx[30].start |
784.67 |
transcript.whisperx[30].end |
811.668 |
transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你去把文件找到嘛 來公證嘛你地雷太沒用 地雷你變成轉機啊你只是個總機而已啊政府存在的目的你要幫人民解決問題 要找到對的方法嘛 是不是剛剛我們有新的進展了那個陸委會的副主委 文姐我剛剛講的 切結這個事情這是一個地雷盡快給一個公版的 大家可以有一個依循這是地雷 地雷好好去檢討一下 跟海基會討論一下 |
transcript.whisperx[31].start |
813.541 |
transcript.whisperx[31].end |
838.84 |
transcript.whisperx[31].text |
海基會如果要存在你本來就要幫人民做這個認證啊等一等我可以去你那邊查說到底以前我有沒有這個文件嘛對不對有沒有撤下這個文件嘛它本來就要保存啊啊沒有的話它存在功能它就是跟海...對岸它有對接啊它可以幫人民查不是嗎如果只要二跟三這個解決了根本就連大陸就不用跑問題就解決了啊委員跟你報告能查的或是海基會有存檔的 |
transcript.whisperx[32].start |
839.941 |
transcript.whisperx[32].end |
861.327 |
transcript.whisperx[32].text |
都有查了所以現在在通知的就是沒有就是沒有存檔也沒有所以你看連海紀委都沒有標籤這年代這麼久很難查你強人所難嘛所以幫忙解決問題啦是好不好 另外剛才你一個電話我怎麼說過你說 你說如果沒有如期完成的你不會把人驅逐出去 趕出去喔 對不對清楚跟民眾講一下 |
transcript.whisperx[33].start |
864.059 |
transcript.whisperx[33].end |
879.185 |
transcript.whisperx[33].text |
不會 這個要保證喔要保證喔不要發生這樣的悲劇如果真的沒有辦法拿到這些文件政府絕對不會做出這種驅逐的舉動這個和前一陣子那三位中配的案子不一樣 |
transcript.whisperx[34].start |
880.39 |
transcript.whisperx[34].end |
900.058 |
transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這就是我們台灣人 做這麼久了嘛 對不對要保護自己的台灣人 現在特別你看 這裡高關稅那個海嘯這麼嚴重 怎麼每天都結社會啊草野都是一新的啦 各行各業 別在裡面又製造一些衝突跟這些擾民的事情這裡面老實講還有歧視跟身份檢查問題 都真的很不好啦我們今天都是解決問題喔 每個東西都很具體喔 好不好 |
transcript.whisperx[35].start |
905.405 |
transcript.whisperx[35].end |
927.498 |
transcript.whisperx[35].text |
好好檢討一下 也要檢討一下 如果在93年3月1號以前可以排除我會努力 當然你如果要修法 立法委內 我們可以來提案可是我覺得你如果心還是軟的 行政部門本身也應該做我們滿期待的啊 陸委會行政部門自己提案啊留下一個心還是軟的 有幫人民在服務的政務官當官都是一時的啦 |
transcript.whisperx[36].start |
928.499 |
transcript.whisperx[36].end |
933.462 |
transcript.whisperx[36].text |
留下來不要是汙名要是美名好不好還有機會我們趕快幫我們的陸培跟我們台灣人謝謝 |