| IVOD_ID |
160003 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160003 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-09T12:54:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-09T13:03:35+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/984603a5a250cdce1c0e5bccc9b1bcf3a9dd72f8e909e2235ac7c33fa4103456b0c18060a6df1b5f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
廖先翔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:54:03 - 13:03:35 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長對於「勞動部所屬基金違規使用如何追回及究責」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
7.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
11.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
謝謝主秀 也要邀請我們的部長 洪部長好 部長好 您的就任就是在處理一些您就任前之前發生的一些爭端就是社會的一些爭議性的一些東西那當然您一上任的時候那您就宣示我們直面爭議 絕無袒護當初我們的宣示是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
61.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
是 是嘛 應該沒有抹黑你還是誇大反正就是面對問題 解決事情啦但是我今天看了我們的報告就是交給委員會的報告那 審計部有審計部的報告那我們這個勞動部有我們勞動部的報告啦但我感覺在我們報告的部分就有些逼中就輕了啦包括我們審計部的報告裡面很明確就有提到當初社會議題討論最大的那一場演唱會 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
64.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
90.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我們審計部在專報裡面有提出來它是使用不當的至少是使用不當 有沒有違法不知道 使用不當但是在我們勞動部的專報裡面我們在檢討這件事情的時候卻沒有看到這一件事情我想確認一下這件事情是我們的同仁一開始就沒有寫上去嗎還是部長有要求這個演唱會不要寫到報告裡面不是 這個關於那個音樂會基本上就是在那七千多萬裡面喔對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
91.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
115.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那你們寫的一些 從一開始到後來都在七千多萬裡面所以對 我知道我知道就是你們七千萬裡面有很多項目嘛其實全部這個成績簿給的也不只這些啦它有很多項目嘛那我們都挑一些重點上來就是社會關心的項目嘛對不對那包括影片製作等等的你們都如實羅列了就大眾最關心的演唱會你們好像就不敢寫上去不是不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
116.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
144.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們就沒什麼好不管這是大家都關心的事情沒關係今天整天早上大家都在討論這件事情所以這只是做一些摘要的列舉我們也沒有迴避在這個音樂會上面辦理的事情這個音樂會辦理的檢討我們也做了所以這這個只是好沒關係那這只是一個列舉同仁本來就沒寫進來嗎部長沒有寫進來我也沒有要怪給同仁但是我的只是很簡單因為這些所有的項目就是以審計部給我們因為我們有時候在看一份報告的時候我們可能就從裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
145.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
164.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們願意成立的一個項目來看我們勞動部願意檢討到底有沒有真心願意來檢討我們可能就從裡面書面資料先來看一個部分嘛那另外我想跟部長確認一下就是可能我不知道你前面有沒有提到我之前有新聞有提到說就是這個報告出來了嘛這個審計部的報告出來了那我們部長是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
165.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
192.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
會用公務預算去補嗎所以我想跟部長確認一下會不會你會不會有一毛錢是要跟許明春或者是謝宜龍來求償的會不會有一毛錢我跟廖遠說明現在大家都很關心決策者的責任是那勞動部會配合檢調跟司法的結果來去做追究檢調他們可能就是刑事嘛這當然尊重啊但是我們內部的行政作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
193.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
206.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
既然我們的審計部已經要求我們追回了追回就有兩種方式嘛對不對一種就是部長講的嘛就是隔年度的公務預算去補回來另外一種追回的方式是跟失職的公職人員去求償這兩種方式應該沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
209.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
234.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
跟六人說明保安部是一個行政單位我們如果要來跟個人追討的話也需要有法律上的依據是這法律上的依據比方說有司法的判決或者比方說如果有判定是要剔除這些是法律上面的依據但我們就有責任要去追回但是我今天要跟任何一個人追回我都要有法律上面的依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
236.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
249.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
目前的法律依據就是審計不有所以如果後續檢調的辦理行事歸行事嘛我們行政歸行政啊你求償是民事吧如果今天檢調判定是有不要欽讚 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
250.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
265.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那我們該追回啊那使用不當嘛你認為這個使用不當是機關的責任還是決策者的責任嘛就你這邊他不一定有刑事責任他不一定有刑事責任我認同啊跟廖仁說明我們現在就是必須依照我們現在就是依照審計的審計結果跟相關的規範來判來後續的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
272.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
295.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以你們有兩步路可以走嘛兩個方向可以走嘛所以你們現在就是選擇走用公屋預算來補你們目前沒有要對這個許民村以及謝宜龍追場嗎追回目前沒有嗎待會你這樣講有點簡化現在檢調跟司法都在偵辦中我們會來配合檢調跟司法的偵辦如果在檢調司法的結果出來這個結果出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
299.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
310.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
該怎麼追我們就怎麼追部長 如果說什麼東西都推給檢調的話那審計部也不用出報告了啦您的部長上任也不用宣誓了啦這不是推給司法我們要跟個人的追討是要有法律上面的依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
321.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
339.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
審計部 請你們追回你們就有法令依據就使用不當 你有兩條路走你選擇用公務預算來補而不是向個人來求助廖仁 審計部的報告很清楚它是寫修正簡列追回好啦 部長修正簡列追回不要 審計部的報告是寫修正簡列追回 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
342.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
就是我們一上任講得很好聽啦好不好 我不希望我們常就是上任的時候宣誓的講得很好聽啦結果啊 我們的有一句台語啦 一句閩南語啦 叫做講到一本機啦做不一通期啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
359.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
378.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
常常會有這樣的說法啦我希望就是我們說什麼當初給社會的期待是什麼以上那個給大家的期待是什麼我們後續就依據大家的期待來做我們從一開始就是說我們尊重審計的結果我們會依照審計的結果來去做相關的辦理這個立場從一開始從12月到現在都沒有改變好 沒關係 部長 謝謝再給我一點時間我請我們的副審計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
385.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
413.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
副審計長 幾秒鐘的影片看一下這個去年時運審計長的這個影片對 追回的對象我那時候很明確的就問審計長我們那時候應該就確定會追回了我一直跟他追的是追回的對象我們會不會很明確的寫但是很遺憾我們這次審計報告沒有寫追回的對象是誰那剛剛依照我們的洪部長回應目前他現在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
415.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
421.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個手上他可能自己的判斷他在等這個檢調單位的這個調查嘛所以說我們目前的方向是由公務機關來這個編列預算來彌補這個追回的一個問題嘛那剛剛就我們這個沈議長講的要去釐清這個對象如果說我們的勞動部是用公務預算來補的話那你們願意替他背書嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
439.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
459.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個跟委員報告這個沒有背書的問題啦就是目前我們是修正就業安利基金的決算省計長說看責任在誰嘛對不對責任在誰那現在部長他認為應該是用公務預算來補就好了嗎那你們就認同他這樣的做法嗎我當初很明確的就是要問 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
460.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
475.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
許明春跟這個謝宜龍有沒有這個責任嘛責任會不會是在他們要不要跟他們追回當初那一場你應該也有在聽啦那沈記長很明確就是說看責任在誰看責任在誰就跟誰追回我的理解是這樣子吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
477.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
498.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
沒錯 至少現在勞動部不認為責任在謝宜榮跟許銘春嘛我不方便幫勞動部答覆但是審計部能做的第一個司法部分我們移送檢調那這個要等他最終的判決司法規司法規不討論這個個人報告一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
501.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
518.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
司法他如果是因為這樣個人的行為除了觸犯刑法以外他還造成公帑損失這個我們要追究財務責任啊造成刑法跟造成公帑損失兩個不一定有這一個問題嘛這個因為我們審計部一個是刑事責任一個是刑事責任我們審計部 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
520.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
527.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
並沒有司法調查權所以我們沒辦法去釐清相關的對待關係沒關係 我客觀的講就是針對勞工部目前打算用這個公務預算來補這個要追回的錢我們審計部是沒有意見的沒有 這個是要尊重他們行政機關就尊重沒有意見嘛沒有 不是沒意見這個預算的籌編是行政院的責任是部會責任 不是審計部啦審計部是監督預算執行我們能做的不是你的責任就沒意見嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
550.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
569.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不是 不是 我們有我們自己的獨立的審計立場我們發現 包括剛剛廖委員很關心可能有特定的首長他要負責任這個部分我們都移送到監察院這個監察院他會有他的處理好 沒關係 以上我只是想藉由今天的質詢來瞭解一下各個機關的立場而已 好不好好 謝謝 廖委員 謝謝謝謝部長 |