| IVOD_ID |
159975 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159975 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-22,20-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化、財政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化、財政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-09T11:36:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-09T11:47:31+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:31 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/984603a5a250cdce78a52d4ac91146f8a71339fff88aef012eb6e21b32d8c6be5473bcb92a8505d65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:36:00 - 11:47:31 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化、財政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「運動彩券發行條例第二十一條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
二、審查委員沈發惠等19人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。
三、審查委員葉元之等19人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二條條文修正草案」案。
四、審查委員葛如鈞等20人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。
五、審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二十一條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
六、審查委員蔡其昌等16人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。
七、審查委員王美惠等24人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二十一條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
八、審查委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二十一條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
九、審查委員郭國文等17人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二十一條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
十、審查委員張雅琳等18人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二條、第二十一條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
十一、審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等 17 人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二條、第二十一條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
十二、審查委員鍾佳濱等21人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二十一條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
十三、審查委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動彩券發行條例部分條文修正草案」案。
十四、審查委員林宜瑾等28人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二十一條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
十五、審查委員李坤城等24人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二十一條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
十六、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二十一條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
十七、審查委員范雲等19人擬具「運動彩券發行條例第二十一條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
(進行詢答及逐條審查；如第十至十七案未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查)） |
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主席 在黨委員 先進列席的政府機關署長 官員 會長 共同夥伴 媒體 紀律女士先生雖然大家都問署長 還是要讓部長出來走走路 散散步來 請部長和署長好 有請部長 署長還沒接上去 等一下下 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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那個還沒接上去二委員好現在第一頁 部長好 署長好 來第一頁好 這個 請問部長 這邊怎麼唸台灣國小世界盃我去年去參加的時候 他說 台灣國小世界盃 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
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其實呢的確有人這麼斷句念台灣國小世界盃我也覺得蠻認同的啦因為國小世界盃這樣的分林賽前面有委員問到了但是呢很積極在推他讓台灣大大的增加了曝光所以呢難怪我們那些在屏東踢足球的說我們去參加台灣國的小世界盃小朋友參加的了解齁所以要繼續支持好不好可以嗎 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
當然好 謝謝 我們開始正題啦 下一張其實剛剛有很多委員在關心的啦我相信部長署長跟我一樣都沒有參加過這個所謂的地下賭局 應該沒有啦就算有也不能承認啦不過小時候有沒有聽聞一些長輩去那種地下賭場的 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
118.922 |
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| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
也沒有聽過 有啦 不一定可能年齡 還有可能聽說中輩去的地下請問一下 你認為 下一頁喔 上一頁 上一頁目前我們地下賭盤跟運動彩券 什麼樣的差異賠率 大家都說毫不猶豫賠率為什麼地下賭局的賠率會比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我先問一下,這要問保證啦一般我們如果在地下交通的做裝業的莊家是抽多少你看馬上就去講5%我合理推論他只是聽說啦抽5%嘛那另外95%的賭資是不是拿來當彩金對不對那為什麼地下賭盤他可以開的賠率比較高因為他收的什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
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他收的中間的抽錢 抽得很少啦但是我們台灣運彩呢 不一樣對不對 來所以部長喔 請先回那我們先問署長就好了來 接下來往下走運彩的賠率低啊所以很多民眾跑去打地下球板是不是那剛剛署長有回答啦我們是不是運彩基金為什麼運彩條例為什麼寫總金額獎金支出不得超過 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
201.107 |
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| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
超過78%包委員他是一整年度的平均因為他有22%的這個成本那成本裡面包含他的社會責任有10%要進到運動發展基金培育人才其他是經銷商以及發行機構來對付所以我們來看一下運彩條例的第六點說總金額不得超過78%但是發行機構提出營運計畫維持配套基金主管計畫核定者不在此限所以有沒有空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
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包委員他的意思是指說你在一整年你的不同的賽事你可能有高有低但是一整年平均下來不能超過78他沒有這樣寫啊他是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
240.745 |
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| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
每一單項的運動財券獎金單次發行的不得超過總金額的78%但是偶爾可以超過但是整年下來不能這個條文我讀不出這個意思同學當然有特殊原因像在我們在疫情期間的時候特殊狀況我們會有一些特殊的做法那那個特殊的話有沒有符合我們法律的規定有符合它准許你可以金主管機關核定的不在此限是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
是嗎我們會有獨島小局去審如果他們有提出來的話我們會去審他我知道署長都很謹慎我們還是要看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
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其實呢運動財運發行條例我們的獎金支出只能78%我們看一下香港是82%有些是90%90%跟我們台灣的地下球板幾乎差不多了對不對所以香港的呢可能他沒有去提撥給這些運動基金你所知道香港的這82%他們有把他們的獎金拿去運產拿去做什麼運動支持嗎有沒有包委員只有台灣是獨有的10%全部進運動基金是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以說因為台灣獨有這10%所以台灣的運財要跟其他外國的縱使是合法的都有一個競爭力上的困難你去香港的話就是82%的獎金拿出來啊所以它賠率讓人高嘛那這怎麼去克服?蘇長有沒有什麼想法? |
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報委員我們跟經銷商在談就是說希望在一定的收入營收之下我們可以在政府的這個10%的比例可以做一個降低讓他們有更多的空間去激勵經銷商來營運抱歉我剛剛有一個比例其實一個比例我們大概是10%是基金12%是行政費78%所以這個行政作業費佔了12%大概你不能動那個10%只能從這12%去調對不對 |
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包委員這12%就等於是經銷商他們的收入我不覺得他們會願意做退讓所以我說其實就是這樣子這跟稱呼抽稅一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
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你關稅提高進口量降低你能抽到的稅反而變少但是你的關稅降低進口量增加總體的你拿到的絕對金額是多的看比例行政就是銷售的發行單位他好像會說比例降低了嘛但是如果發行量增加很多去地下球板的跑來這裡他是不是總total的他的可營運的作業費提高 |
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我同意,因為這是更產業的思維,這是對的。但是因為第三屆已經簽約,這部分我們可能要第四屆才能夠來進行。好,再來我們講第二個事情,因為今天是審條例。運採條例的行政法本席的版本有加上這第四項,但是行政院為什麼把它刪掉? |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
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報告委員因為其實這個部分在一般的刑法就已經有規定所以沒有必要在這邊繼續在名列啦好你說因為刑法有規定所以我行政法就不名列嘛我們看一下刑法是什麼妨礙公務罪要以執行者是公務員行政機關滅證罪未證罪這是另外是不是但是我們往下看行政法有跟刑法不能同時存在的嗎我們酒駕 |
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酒駕如果在這個標準,0.15到0.25之間是行政法,累犯無上限扣掉照,對不對?有沒有行政法?有。但是酒測值超過0.25的,就是什麼?公共危險,不能安全價值,這是刑法。所以行政法跟刑法,可能它的行為對象的程度不同,有可能是客體不同。所以本來行政法跟刑法就可以同時存在,往下看。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
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但是你現在運採條例你知道嗎運採條例前面他說的是什麼往前跳兩頁他說的是法人團體這是不是行政機關有沒有行政權有沒有構成妨礙公務沒有 |
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但是呢如果我們行政機關我們體育署我們要去調查他要主動配合他不主動配合我就可以罰喔但是你來看一下滅政罪跟未政罪往下跳滅政罪跟未政罪第一個妨礙公務要必須對公務員強暴脅迫我們行政法如果說有球團作弊他只要沒有去妨礙公務員他就不構成 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
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滅政罪我必須檢察官舉證他有偽造、變造或陰秘或隱匿證據或者說他做虛偽陳述這必須針對的是什麼?針對的是自然人球團是自然人嗎?教練可能是啊 球員可能是啊配合打假球 放水這個裡面行政法他沒有妨礙公務啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
524.704 |
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你要舉證他有什麼有這些行為舉證之所在敗訴之所在行政法要求我要調查他有沒有放水打假球我必須要有這些內容的主動陳述但是跳回去行政法怎麼樣再往上行政法只要你不主動配合我就可以罰你了解沒有要不要舉證我叫你把資料交出來我問你那天你跑去哪裡有沒有跟那些莊家那個叫什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
555.238 |
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565.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
賭職的那個聚賭的這些抽頭的人見面吃飯有沒有配合調查他不配合調查那我就可以行政罰了了不了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
566.724 |
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所以我要說明的是說 我們在整個條例的設計上第一 行政罰跟刑罰是可以並存的第二 刑罰罰的是自然人他的妨礙權利的課題是公務員當我們要確保運採 運動健全發展不會被職業賭博滲透我們必須行政機關 掌有一定的要求他能夠配合調查 |
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他如果不配合調查你就是罰他什麼 行政罰嘛他可以行政救濟嘛但是刑法就很嚴格刑法你必須證明說球員或教練有跟這些賭客有一些 你有證據證明他有隱匿 有滅證罪 有未證罪不然的話你罰不到他往下看 我們看結論往前跳一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
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好所以呢 個人如果觸犯運彩的第21條第4項行政院說我們回歸刑法 我們沒有問題對不對 個人自然能觸犯了嘛他妨礙公安怎麼樣嘛但是如果是法人跟團體他違反這第4項目前你根據刑法你罰不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
628.462 |
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649.547 |
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這樣了解差別了齁我們那個體育署跟我們教育部有法務嘛你們回去研究一下因為我們今天是審法條所以我希望呢你們跟行政院也溝通一下今天委員的提案我們希望未來能夠確保我們的運動在職業運動的過程當中不會運踩的發行造成的我們就要防度過去看結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
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我們就是希望說除了保障10%的運動中基金提撥外請你檢討獎金的支出率提高的投注誘因遏止地下賭盤的壯大而且也不遂損及到承銷商的權益第二運彩條例保留未配合調查的行政法配合刑法的相關法則才能完善防弊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
670.658 |
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署長 回去要不要研究一下會 我們會把委員的意見帶回去研究帶回去給誰研究 給部長研究嗎我們會跟法務部一起來研究這部分什麼時候可以給本席一個答覆這部分 我們一個月內應該是可以一個月內 好那就兩個題目 謝謝您 謝謝主席 |