| IVOD_ID |
159959 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159959 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-09T10:56:13+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-09T11:08:27+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/984603a5a250cdce7916a62ab80054b5a9dd72f8e909e2232eb6e21b32d8c6be268cb4a8a8bd5f905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:56:13 - 11:08:27 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長對於「勞動部所屬基金違規使用如何追回及究責」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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主席謝謝麻煩請我們審計部副審計長副審計長我剛聽了五位委員的質詢啊勞動部現在就是全部都推給審計啊因為審計說認定之前這救援基金7000多萬的使用是可以認定是修正簡列不是剔除 |
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34.921 |
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所以說勞動部就好像領到了聖旨一樣他就沒有去追討他就用公務預算來編列讓外界都覺得是說好像左手補右手公務預算救安基金這是不是都是人民的納稅錢來源是好所以我為什麼會要針對審計部的部分因為我很重視審計部給我們的資料給我們的報告 |
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審計的報告我想審計長你也有看過你覺得裡面這樣子的濫用公務預算真的合理嗎大家都是公務員我剛特別看了一下我也就教一下說那內容來我們先看一下審計長請教一下這個是我們大家所關心所謂的這個許民村的演唱會他總共 |
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花費多少錢300多萬元那300多萬元裡面到底這個演唱會他的製作燈光音響效果舞台用在哪邊有沒有找出來各位報告這個前段部分我們都有移送給監察院是移送監察院我想請教確認跟你確認嘛是 |
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那個演唱會我們看到燈光音響舞台包括說舞群表演人員不只許明春一個人唱歌嘛是還有前面還有兩個歌手不是嗎對那那個演出費編在哪邊有沒有編在哪邊 花多少錢 |
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159.649 |
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是不是沒有嘛勞動部他們那時候是就用開口合約而你們的報告裡面寫的開口合約沒有這個項目只有製作影片的項目所以後來就讓他們用直播的方式以及直播完之後剪成7支影片的方式給核銷368萬 |
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那一支一個直播跟7支影片而這個7支影片還不是新拍的是把直播的畫面剪成7支影片然後來核銷這樣子報了368萬合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
200.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們認為不合理不合理所以我因為我們提出的一個審計意見其中就是他運用這個開口契約用這個方式來核銷來處理其實是是不合一般的荒謬嘛是是如果說可以的話那就用公務預算啊為什麼那時候用救安基金就代表是說救安基金感覺比較便宜形式比較可以暗度成倉啊來這是單一個案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
207.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
218.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們再看下一個大家都是公務同仁喔可以看一下這樣子的一個做法如果發生在各自部會上面可能大家都已經被抓去關了來這個是我們審計的報告喔一樣他說什麼他說總共金額有632萬元要製作5支影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
232.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
248.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
內容講的是說我要五支影片製作632萬結果他到最後怎麼做他到最後是拍了一支影片之後把影片剪輯成五支短影片交付驗收然後請領632萬來來 沈記長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
253.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
276.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
哪一個公家機關單位可以這樣子來做標案我標案寫的是我要製作五支影片來投標的廠商也都知道說他要做五支影片結果到最後他驗收的時候是給那個廠商做一支影片然後剪成五支短影片然後就變五支雙胞胎啊 三胞胎 五胞胎啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
277.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
303.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
一支影片變成五支短影片然後就變五支然後就可以有六百多萬的驗收通過這有沒有構成圖利啊我對外的標案講的是說我要拍五支影片所以廠商他可能不敢來因為覺得說六百多萬拍五支影片價格有點高我可能成本不合沒有來結果真的來投標的我不知道這廠商是誰但我要求應該要查 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
304.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
324.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
廠商來 他就講是說 欸 我來投標那可能其他人會覺得說 奇怪 你怎麼會來投標就原來是因為到最後驗收很簡單啊驗收是或者要拍一支 剪成五支短影片part 1 part 2 part 3 part 4 part 5結果 承辦人員就讓他驗收變五支影片陳記長 這是單一個案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
329.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
336.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們所有的查核發現其實就跟提供給委員的資料一樣這是單一個案嗎應該 應該 類同的狀況應該蠻多的應該蠻多的 沒有錯 你的報告我客氣了 112年勞動節主題影片是這樣子辦你的報告裡面113年勞動節影片也是這樣辦啊而且更貴 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
357.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
374.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
831萬結果要做兩支影片兩支影片他變成是拍了一支影片叫搬家片結果分上下集然後再拍一個30秒的短片沒有重拍喔也是一樣把那個搬家片變30秒短片結果請領了831萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
381.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
399.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這更簡單了他連剪輯都懶了三支影片兩支長片一支短片831萬就他拍一支分上下集然後再剪一個精華30秒出來就可以核銷578萬跟96萬天體下有那麼好康念好康報大家知道吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
408.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
427.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
有多少青年朋友苦哈哈創業沈機長我再請教知不知道外面行情剪一支影片多少錢欸...不瞭解有沒有去問沒有沒有因為我們只是個案查核就裡面不合理的部分我們蒐集證據把他把他揭露出來沈機長會不會覺得真的非常離譜 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
429.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
454.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我看到你們報告我都覺得非常離譜啊800多萬 500多萬是這樣子濫用人民的納稅錢這樣濫花而且更不要講過去三年就業安定基金其實是虧損的三年虧了200億結果我們的勞動部用這樣子的花錢的方式啊為什麼我要問你是因為勞動部長批批壓啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
455.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
478.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他從剛剛到現在只要講的都是講是說依法行政 依法辦理審計部告訴我們修正簡略不用剔除所以我們就編公務預算我們拿2025年的公務預算來去補2021年2022年2023年上下起手出去的預算上下交鄉賊啊 左手給右手啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
480.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
504.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
時空旅人之期啊2025年的預算來補2021年已經出去的預算然後他的核銷檢驗是這樣子一個狀況驗收是這樣的狀況合理嗎那你這樣子我們還要還要堅持講的是這個叫做什麼預算不相關然後不是相符 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
506.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
533.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
還要在昨天你們送來的報告之後然後之後再換報告 換字眼然後還要看你剛剛的這個辯解還是講是說沒有啦 都有用啦文字都有用啦我光點這三點都是你報告裡面的內容這三點我覺得如果說是做工程的話早就被抓去關了你怎麼會發包一個標案講的是要做到這個我要蓋五間房子 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
534.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
561.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
結果變成是我蓋一間房子五層樓就驗收就通過會受害嗎公務員報告因為他這個案子齁他剛剛前面我也跟其他委員報告因為這個案子他的處理方式他是用開口契約啦齁那我們覺得這個開口契約裡面其實他開口契約可以變成是我們公務預算濫用的理由跟藉口嗎當然不行當然不行啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
562.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
590.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為開口契約的所以我們審計單位現在為什麼一直跟您堅持在講說審計單位出來報告很重要你們認定到什麼程度行政部門就可以拿著上方保健如果你們認定就是他現在只要修正簡列行政部門就上方保健啊我就編預算來補就好啦啊之前的責任是誰哪一個承辦那個承辦怎麼驗收的有沒有圖利的嫌疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
592.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
598.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
為什麼廠商就只有這家廠商知道可以這樣驗收其他廠商都沒有辦法我5隻就是5隻沈記長還有沒有再調整的空間還有沒有要再修正的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
611.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
633.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
還有沒有要站在中華民國政府把關預算的空間真的不能濫用我相信有良知的公務同仁聽到我剛剛這樣子解釋這幾個大家可以歡迎大家去看這審計的報告奇聞共賞真的太離譜了就是因為看到那麼離譜的報告出來之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
634.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
641.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你寫出來的狀況才會讓我們看到過去那幾年救安基金被濫用的有多離譜這有送監察院已經呈報監察院你覺得監察院會有效果嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
655.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
672.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那麼沒信心 對監察院那麼沒信心但我知道 我也說你送給監委嘛 是不是沒有沒有 我們就直接整個案子傳報給監察院那監察院內部的審查 監察委員有立案調查了嗎立案調查了目前還在調查中目前還在調查中 是不是沈警長 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
676.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
691.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
互相尊重立法部門跟監察部門其實我們都是站在人民的這一面要求督促行政部門我不會又要馬好又要馬不吃草所以救安基金如果當用用在刀口上我不會反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
692.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
711.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
但是如果說花這種情況你們都白紙黑字寫出來了然後結果還可以放任行政部門沒有去追討相關的責任而是編列2025年的公務預算去把他給回繳然後就傳過水無痕就沒事了我們會嚴正處理不會傳過水無痕我們一定會依法來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
718.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
732.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
沈機長本席看你剛剛講嚴正處理依法處理會是什麼樣的狀況是這個案子我還要繼續追是希望我們下一次再見面的時候你真的可以給我們一些國人交代跟責任以上謝謝謝謝委員謝謝洪委員 |