| IVOD_ID |
159891 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159891 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-23,36-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-07T11:20:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-07T11:32:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c41b1a0504d137e5a7dc9722b8adc0e3daa51b2df98f8e7fb95a6c2cde3b5686303c495862b7e09b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蔡其昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:20:20 - 11:32:00 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查一、委員蔡其昌等17人、二、委員林宜瑾等27人、三、委員楊瓊瓔等21人及四、委員徐富癸等17人分別擬具「國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司設置條例第十條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。
【以上各案詢答完畢後，進行處理】） |
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謝謝主席 請五次長請次長鐵道局梁局長然後台鐵局馮總經理馮總委員好次長好次長那個海線鐵道的這個雙軌高架 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.159 |
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本席知道因為楊局長在之前有到我辦公室因為我陸續都會追蹤那個進度局長也很負責任只要有心有進度就會來本席的辦公室商討報告那現在最新的進度是因為那個財務 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.561 |
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台中市政府送到交通部來的財務規劃裡面還是希望財務要中央尋求中央的補助那看起來那補助好像不符合中央的相關規定嘛是不是這樣所以我們又把報告退回請市政府修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
62.062 |
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沒有問題 請局長回答一個報告委員 因為台中市政府在這個報告裡面有提到要求專案協商那按照要點 也就是我們立體化有一個這個審議的要點它有相關的這個計算的版本也就是說現在有按要點計算是A版本那台中市政府希望爭取比較優惠的條件 這是B版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
85.7 |
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那我們這個在呈報過程當中因為相關的審議機關有意見所以我想我們會再來協助雙方來做溝通好那也私下跟台中市政府講一下啦就是刪了中央的預算再加上財政授制劃分把那麼多的錢都給地方政府所以要這個補助啊不是不行啦講起來獨立的嘛要中央 |
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110.47 |
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大錢來補助基本上我站在海線立委的立場我不會反對嘛就分配的比例除了公視之外我們盡量來協助地方政府趕快民眾要海線的這個雙軌高架能夠早日落實本席是支持的也就是說在合理之外我們怎麼盡量來幫助地方政府把這件事情做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
132.296 |
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158.678 |
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但是呢你把財政授權劃分把它切割一大塊給地方政府再來又預算又要刪又要動那又要中央補助哇這個世間怎麼有這種事情所以你們跟地方政府溝通的時候也要跟盧市長講一下嘛你不能這樣你們這個黨不可以這樣幹嘛這樣幹的結果就是就是導致中央沒錢沒錢你又要發公文又要這樣寫這樣怎麼合理 |
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161.705 |
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所以本席很支持啦只要中央有能力我們就盡量來幫忙但是要弱化中央又要中央幫忙這個是緣木求雨啦這是做不高的事情所以我會希望那個楊局長緊盯這個公文的進度啦不要只發給台中市政府請他做修改修改之後可能又要過半年過一年才又再修改上來好不好這個我再一次提醒啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
190.762 |
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219.399 |
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第二個我想今天這個來講一下這個台鐵這個償債基金的部分我想我就不再多談因為它主要還是放在本席有提案希望在法在法裡面解決你們是希望那個辦法就是償債基金你們打算多久要把債償完市長30年嘛對不對你們辦法裡面寫30年嘛因為這個償債基金它不是一個 |
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221.283 |
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244.017 |
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純粹性的啦也就是它不是一支你們要藏在基金裡面你們要運為譬如說裡面又有百年企業所以你們就一百年要去藏在兩百年永久性的長期性的不是它就有一個年限嘛台鐵公司土地作價給鐵道局然後鐵道局你要把債務還清所以它有一個年限啦那本息為了 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
245.322 |
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263.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
為了認為這個很慎重應該趕快來處理這個土地常在的事情所以本席把它放在法律裡面來處理那你們希望在辦法裡面來處理這個等一下主席在主持這個討論的時候我沒有堅持啦我只是強調不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
264.534 |
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291.172 |
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沒有期限的一直下去那為什麼我擔心這個沒有不能沒有期限的一直下去這個要回過過來你看看台鐵台鐵公司你看這個大家都在講公司化本席也不反對公司化透過台鐵的公司化可不可以提升台鐵的績效讓永遠虧損的台鐵公司能夠步上軌道來賺錢至少不賺錢也不要每年虧損這麼多錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
293.936 |
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305.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那你看我們每一年的預估,你看我再把你們自己的預估表拿出來看你們的預估表當中,你看已經發生的啦你們預估113年要虧損74.9億,但實際上虧損多少?137.9億你不覺得這個預估差距有一點遠嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
318.673 |
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335.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主要是幫委員如果可以給我說明一下我當然要聽你說明因為公司化我們其實做支付金提撥23億當初也沒有在預算裡面被考量所以後來還有那為什麼沒有被考量這件事情是突然之間發生沒有被考量進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
336.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
362.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
對就因為我們的預算都是113年預算在121年我們就提報112送到院裡面所以在兩年前我們就在估的時候公司化的政策有配合有編列部分的一些費用預算費用但是大部分的費用沒有編列進去的所以也要特別說明一下那中間過程還碰到電價有兩次的調漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
363.593 |
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389.3 |
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那鐵路運輸業調漲幅度都很高又高達15%那再來就是我們的優退的一個機制措施也大概也投入了5到6億那所以電費然後薪資調漲所以這種種加起來事實上我們有如果同一個基準來計算的話事實上我們的虧損跟這個預算的預估的虧損是很接近的這個也跟委員做一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
390.12 |
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414.913 |
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對啦 總經理這個你講這些理由其實我不能說我反對啦但是如果我們以一個公司運營的角度啦一個公司我現在要編假設我要開產114的時候我就已經可以大約預估未來一年除非像黑天鵝啦就像今天川普這幾天川普關稅的事情對不對大家覺得他應該不會這麼狠結果他真的那麼狠 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
415.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
433.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但他有沒有跡象 他還是有跡象嘛所以該避險的人 他在川普可能上他可能當選就是一個時機避險的時機再來第二個川普在談關稅的時候可能就是第二個時機因為他說我們在清明年假的時候他之前要宣布嘛所以有人這兩個他都避了 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
434.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他就進行相關的避嫌所以你說他黑天鵝嘛是但也沒有到那麼黑啦這個天鵝也沒有那麼黑啦所以我的意思在講說一個公司啊虧損預估虧損74億實際上虧損137億 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
452.806 |
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479.193 |
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這個幅度說實在話有一點大有一點大所以電會不會上漲其實我們應該已經會知道因為電會不會上漲我們做政府自己都還不知道電會不會上漲我覺得這個說不大過去你完全腦袋裡面沒有這本來預估電會下跌的結果電竟然上漲我認為應該不會吧因為大家所有的企業都預估電會上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
480.936 |
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495.701 |
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就像你要我預估明年我還是會告訴你電有可能會上漲啊因為這是我們可預期的就像川普的關稅也是一樣從他當選那一刻到他宣布4月2號宣布其實都是可預期的所以我的意思就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
496.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
519.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
台鐵預估這個數字都讓我感到害怕啦所以你常債基金我叫你三十年已經衝衝的原因就是這後輩都不遵守這都不知道要說到什麼時候但我不堅持啦你辦法上面有我覺得就表示一個態度啦態度先出來只是我很擔心那個態度跟實際執行的結果還是有相當的距離跟落差啦好那台鐵公司114年 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
521.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
524.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
從虧損實際上虧損137億我們預計你們的預算是要來預計虧損8.6億預估虧損86億這個差距怎麼弄這個怎麼樣變成137億要虧損86億你們怎麼算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
544.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
570.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
報告委員就是我們在首先是在收入面收入面我們有預計我們的營運本業會增加到7億元左右那我們的附屬事業包括便當文創商品還有這個IP的授權那也會增加到10億左右今年大概是8.6億所以我們有設定這樣的一個KPI就是營收的增加那還有就是剛才講的公司化 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
571.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
588.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
當初第一年有投入的一些支出有減少那接著再計算我們一個人事的成本那人事在支出的費用裡面三大項是主要的一個是用人費用一個是折舊費用這兩項事實上就佔了我們整個公司的支出的八成 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
589.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
610.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那我們所以在114年碰到 營收我們一定會增加我們預估大概都會增加到10%到15%之間那但是資本的支出我們折舊因為這個新車投入了將近1000億開始就要分攤折舊費用所以折舊費用也會同步的增加20到30億所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
612.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
635.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以我們整體的努力相關的一些費用能夠節流那再開源那整體的這個營收可以相較113年可以減少大約50億這個虧損以上報告我總經理這樣啦因為時間真的是太短了就我要認真的每一個項目來問你譬如說營業外收入為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
638.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
654.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
減少的砍了快一半這個我都很希望了解所以是不是總經理你把未來你們的預估的狀況讓我了解一下每一個每一個細項你們到底要增加要增減多少讓我了解一下那個主席時間是不是已經到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
659.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
688.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那個齁另外那個站票跟坐票的問題啊我看消費者大家都很在意嘛到底我們的志強號哪一些是可站哪一些是不可站那為什麼站的人跟坐的人都在吵架都在吵架啦那到底為什麼時間都沒時間 我很想了解耶這齁台鐵公司部跟旅客都會玩架每天都在上網齁這個罵坐的人罵站的站的人罵坐的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
689.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
697.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
阿這個我們難道沒有想要解決嗎就我們的有啦齁那怎麼解決來告訴我一下啦好不好時間的關係我沒在這裡跟你們問啦好謝謝 |