| IVOD_ID |
159885 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159885 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-23,36-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-07T10:07:21+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-07T10:18:45+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:24 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c41b1a0504d137e5442bd90dd84733c8daa51b2df98f8e7f9acb4c1531107a79e8a977c2421e346e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
魯明哲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:07:21 - 10:18:45 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查一、委員蔡其昌等17人、二、委員林宜瑾等27人、三、委員楊瓊瓔等21人及四、委員徐富癸等17人分別擬具「國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司設置條例第十條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。
【以上各案詢答完畢後，進行處理】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 謝謝主席有請我們這個現在變董事長 吳董跟次長請次長次長就請教一下我們現在剛剛這個台鐵啦台鐵的一個票價它的一個幅度它的現在進度實施的日期確定沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
43.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
跟委員報告我想這部分因為行政已經核定了大概我們預估什麼時候實施6月23日目前一定是6月23日要調整6月份對6月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.956 |
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71.218 |
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其實我們當然看到每一次任何費用要調帳的時候我們勢必會有一些這個民怨產生啦但對台鐵幾十年票價沒有這個調過然後大家又對你的安全包括你的新車包括你的這個革新有很多期待那這一次我在坊間聽到的當然我們有些民怨肯定是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
90.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
但我覺得對於你們一個調帳的這個部分民眾更在意說他的錢用到哪裡去了再來就是說這樣可以促成你什麼樣的一個革新安全怎麼樣去提升我相信這個部分在台鐵也有這樣的一個認知吧是有好 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.197 |
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107.963 |
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錢用到哪裡去這是一個感受的問題你自己的每天的財務報表年度的部分只有你自己的看到民眾的一個感受我就覺得不管是台鐵交通部甚至現在代理董事長你們真的要去注意這個問題市長請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
111.877 |
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138.016 |
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這個紀念燈光八千萬 超過八千萬主任你是不是事前知情 還是推手之一這之前是有台鐵局 台鐵公司在處理的我是 大概是當天知道的八千多萬 但是我知道報紙出來 你跟我們一樣 報紙出來你才知道不是 那個隧道燈光我知道有做這個隧道燈光但是那個價錢是哪一天才知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
139.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
163.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好那接下來是不是 台鐵馮總這個因為最主要是這樣第一個8000多萬這個是經費讓我們所有的人民感覺是怎麼會相對這麼高第二個是他這個燈光不是每天開大概按照你們的規劃每一年的4月2號開到4月6號就一年365天營業5天 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
166.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那我就請教一下這個總經理來回答了那你這個部分為什麼不每天開會不會造成什麼平常列車的一個什麼樣的一個影響為什麼不每天開你說一下包委員今天要做回應第一點是剛才說設置其實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
207.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
在112年的過程中我們跟家屬討論好幾次就包括要設一個紀念碑、牆還有地景的一個形式那過程中因為還涉及到這個是太魯閣國家公園的一個保育地區所以也不適合做大量的一些設施所以最後才家屬有提出來說那用光影的方式來紀念所以我問你為什麼不每天開啦一年只能開五天 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
208.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
234.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
好 這個前面有說明 第二個是說開放的啟用時間 主要這個光影紀念燈光 隧道紀念燈光 它目的是在在追思 然後在反省讓台鐵可以反省 讓社會大眾能夠這個看到這個燈光 能夠再提醒警惕台鐵繼續完成安全改革所以基於這個目的 所以在選定在事故發生的4月2號為期5天的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
236.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
259.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
會不會造成行車安全上面的一些顧慮對在過程中其實在決定這個用隧道紀念燈光我們也經過充分討論我們所有相關部門包括機務的部門跑行車的部門都有做討論會不會對行車的安全整體如果每天每台列車都開的話整體評估會不會對於你們火車行車的安全是降低還是提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
261.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
287.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們是盡量避免他對司機員行車的影響所以那個燈光是在我們駕駛艙過去以後才會開始起你花了八千萬是第一個問題第二個問題是說你採用一種降低可能降低行車安全的方式來紀念一場非常慘的行車的事故我覺得對於往生者傷亡者的紀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
288.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
312.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
對於我們現在家屬的安慰最大安慰是什麼就是台鐵的革新跟安全體能就這兩項而已就這兩項你現在用一個開燈可能會造成不管是司機員反光或者因為光太亮如果有異物進入的時候不易發現你用減損安全的方式來紀念我個人覺得錢是一個問題我是覺得蠻大的一個諷刺 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
316.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
341.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第二個 這也是你們台鐵第一次在紀念這樣的一個事故我是覺得值得紀念但是你們第一次採用直接在火車的軌道 隧道 行車路線上去擺設 設計這個紀念這是很恐怖的二 我們普悠瑪 普悠瑪事件也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
342.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
361.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
很糟糕啊在哪紀念呢你們都是異地嘛去台東火車站前面的紀念公園你們現在擺到軌道中啊我跟你講要不要人去維修要不要回修你說都沒事反光可以忍過看不到衣物那就每天在比運氣然後再來呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
362.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
375.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
什麼時候要去維修呢肯定要維修嘛不然隔一年這五天怎麼會亮呢誰進這隧道維修他要不要開機具進去每一個都是安全風險的因子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
376.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
404.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我真的是覺得你們在普悠瑪的一個事故花了836萬836萬在這個異地在台東的一個車站前面建那我不知道為什麼我跟你講不要扯到家屬家屬說換一種敬念碑的方式並沒有說你一定要用燈光說要用燈光並沒有說要花8000萬花2000萬不行嗎這是你們設計你們後面的一個制度啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
406.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
430.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我想這個時間不夠啦 最後我也講 因為你們兩個監理單位不同那剛剛第一件事你們自己去思考 監理單位不同 裁發標準不一樣正好112年9月之前 是我們當時的伍聖元你當鐵道局的局長 你現在是次長那我們現在楊振軍是現任鐵道局的 接任你的一個局長我覺得很奇怪你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
430.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
438.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那台鐵一直每天開每天開都不變問題大到小小都有結果奇怪了在112年9月11號以前居然監理單位沒有裁罰過 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
443.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
466.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你知道嗎 即使在110年的時候太魯閣出軌 甚至更早的時候普庸馬我們當時的監理單位居然沒有開罰我們調資料沒有開罰發生什麼大事都是小事只要蓋得住 掩得住 藏得住都是小事但是我們看到112年9月11號之後是因為楊局長你上任之後這個革新勵志嗎 還是怎樣 我不懂啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
468.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
481.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
連續17個月開了12件那我覺得這個你去研究吧是以前太混了還是太認真了還是台鐵越變越差為什麼 什麼原因但是我最後一件事我真的要提醒你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
483.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
497.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
很多常在細節你現在是看小事一個小的裂縫哪天變成大裂縫的時候你們來不及你看看這12條裁罰的一個理由啊你請問一下注意看第三跟第五淺藍色標示那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
499.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
516.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
就是你們規定要九冊結果未實施九冊也可以上去開那是什麼原因我是想不通啦到底為什麼這麼鬆散當然這112年的現在倒過去就罰那接下來呢有六件事情用紅色底的這個標示全部都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
518.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
536.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
體檢不合格的人上去運物站值班站長或者執行行車工作他就不合格我們陸海空相關的有一些職業人員你必須經過體檢因為他有一定的公共的責任車上幾百人 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
537.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
546.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
結果我看都高雄站我不知道在肯定誰知道哪一個司機員哪個體檢過哪一個體檢不過只有內部知道但你內部再怎麼鬥或者有什麼問題剛剛提的是對的而且鐵道局也下去去確認你是不合格體檢不合格的人不斷的去這個你覺得是不是不應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
564.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
581.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
不適任體檢不適合的人不斷上去 總經理你答體檢不合格我們是不能派任擔任不能派任為什麼派了呢我們現在都有特別按照鐵路法的相關規定我們體檢合格的人員才會擔任執行官 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
582.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
599.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
第二十二項是一百一四年才發日期當然你發生日期是一百一十二年我最後也是希望鐵道局去研究一下你開個罰單要延遲兩年去檢驗現在一百一三年都沒問題嗎一張罰單一百一四年都沒問題嗎我覺得你這個東西要立竿見影 次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
601.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
619.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
督導一下有問題輔導期之後你說三個月對不對四個月你罰單就要開出來為什麼讓他公司能夠有這個依據內部一個懲處嘛像高雄站發生這麼嚴重的事這麼多次他的管理單位他的高層發生一次你處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
621.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
645.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
義務員 刺激員 或是那個人發生兩次基層的阻管 發生四五次 五六次如果你們再擺爛 我跟你講發生大事 我覺得是大家不願意看到的能不能市長好好去督導一下我跟委員報告 鐵路法是在112年修訂的那剛剛提到那些 其實我現在要求鐵道局他針對台鐵的所謂的退行 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
646.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
660.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
耗資冒進這些要加強來處分也就是講白一點就是裁罰如果違反這個規定這是最基本的也就是說你的燈號沒有依照燈號去做這是很基本的所以這部我已經要求鐵道局這個要來嚴格執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
662.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
681.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好 希望鐵道局能夠加快這種從看到這個事件到最後開罰因為你們在處理我們調資料也沒有 對不對到底113年發生什麼事到現在我調不到但我覺得這不好啦你委員也是好心在幫你們去push這件事情抱歉 耽誤很多時間 謝謝謝謝委員 |