| IVOD_ID |
159879 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159879 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-07T09:41:56+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-07T09:54:19+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:23 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c41b1a0504d137e5d5fd6461e88536925410e0cc1efc9f30dc77f2ee5fba4e3f3edf8563874a00ef5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張宏陸 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:41:56 - 09:54:19 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
(變更議程)立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、交通部就「市區道路品質改善計畫執行效益與檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【本次議案係114年度內政部國土管理署及所屬「生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫(市區道路)」業務費預算解凍條件之檢討改善專案報告】） |
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SPEAKER_01 |
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我請署長署長有請國緣好署長我剛剛當然每個委員有每個委員的立場但剛剛也有委員質詢有說到你們就是都做得不好所以刪你們預算要來解凍要看條件要好的話才要解凍你認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
其實我想這個都是中央跟地方通力才能解決的問題今天也不一定是完全說預算編列到非常多地方政府就能夠完全執行因為每個大家執行的量能都有一定的程度那我們每年都在做這樣的考核 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
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那不斷地在檢討看看地方政府所提案的內容因為事實上尤其做人行倒是一個很辛苦的事情因為現有的道路已經以車型為主要在改成人行的話那地方政府在執行過程當中我們也體會他要跟民眾溝通的一些困難所以在每年都會不斷地去檢討考核看看他的提案數量 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那所以其實大家都已經盡力在執行那這個也不是說單方面說我只看一個數字而是事實上要去看到執行後的效果那所以到目前來講我們是認為我們的執行的成果是非常的好爸爸你認為你的執行成果好啊可是人家剛剛人家有的委員就認為你的執行不好啊對不對這個也不是我剛剛你自己有沒有聽清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
有沒有你剛有沒有聽清楚有對嘛所以我剛我剛問你的我請教你的我要問你的時候他說你們資訊不好所以他刪你們預算啊啊凍結你們的預算啊啊你們用的好再來啊我只問你這個你你贊不贊成呃其實我反而是覺得要替地方政府在你只要回答我講清楚因為我們其實執行的效果是非常好不是啊你只要回答我你贊不贊成啊呃其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我是比較尷尬你比較尷尬我為什麼要問你這個我只能說我們盡力去處理啦我為什麼要問你這個我跟你講每個委員的看法都有他的有道理之處他要刪你的預算你要怎麼亂有人說亂刪有人說什麼我覺得各自表述但我是不大認同為什麼不大認同呢要看要看全國 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
你不能只看你的地方啊因為你們這些都是跟縣市政府合作的吧是對不對每個縣市政府的能力態度不一樣吧沒錯的確是這樣我想說你說錯了沒錯還是錯每個縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
191.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
197.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他的積極度他的能力他什麼都不一樣你不能用這個很差的縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
198.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
224.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
啊來說全國都這樣所以你去看一個報表一個什麼要來刪這個預算要來做解凍的依據我個人認為不公平你對那個積極認識的縣市首長是一個非常不公平的事情那你本來就做不好的我說真的你要去動他去什麼的我覺得還說得過去但很多是積極在做的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
是不是其實大多數都非常非常積極你也不要跟我講大多數啦我覺得這個我坦白跟你講署長你說大多數這就是官話了啦我們看得出來有的就不積極啊有的也是亂搞啊對不對我之前一年前了我請你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
248.414 |
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270.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對人行道 改善行人的這一個去訂定一個補助的標準 考核的標準我不知道你們做了沒做得如何跟委員報告啦 因為過去 去年才剛執行第一期啦那所以它其實相關的考核是今年才會開始那所以 而且是在鼓勵提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
270.649 |
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| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以我們是先在目前為止都先用鼓勵提案的概念先鼓勵地方政府下去做我跟你講齁去年我去年你們去看你回去看我的諮詢我就諮詢我就要求啦你一開始做我就發現問題啦我是不是就覺得這個有問題啊你們要去做啊對不對你們現在的要求地方積極的來地方就給你報一堆案子來 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
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到最後第一個沒有能力做第二個他報給你的案子跟他實際執行的內容是不一樣的啊對不對我是不是在去年就講了我說像這種的你就下次要補助你可以不給他你管他是什麼市長啊我們要把錢花在刀口上欸他給你申請人行道結果他就完全去做綠美化結果把人行道搞得亂七八糟 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這樣合理嗎我覺得這筆錢就不能這樣花啊對這個我們在審查的過程當中都會去抓出這些問題都會去抓出這些問題不是除了抓出問題之外我是不是要請你們要做一個考核的標又不是我錢給他的你就不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
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喔 不會 這我們事後都會去考核因為中間都會有列管的會議啊不是啦 阿里你事後考核他都已經發包出去了然後地方的發包他就依地方政府的發包去執行了啊等於他報給你中央是A計畫他地方執行的B計畫 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
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那個B計畫發包的人已經來不及處理了根本我們在設計階段都會有審查都會要他把設計的報告會送過來我們會再做實際的檢查來確認他的預算的內容我就舉一個例子給你啊我們新北就很多啊對不對那像我就跟你講啦我們的長江路對不對他報給你A計畫他做的是B計畫啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
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像那種計畫的話就是說我們只能合我們要求的這一個部分我只能給你我的部分至於你要額外增加的一些綠美化那就是你自己的經費要去做處理我們通常都會把它切開來經費處理是一件事情我們對配合你的生活圈道路你的什麼還有你主要幹道15分鐘之內要到交流道什麼這都是你們的政策對不對他的人行道 |
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| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
如果亂做影響到車流你那個15分鐘的計畫能達成嗎這個是環環相扣的你不要以為這一個降下去就沒事我覺得這個不對我舉我剛舉 |
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長江路的例子就是全國也有很多這樣啊沒有縣市長那麼笨啦我跟您要一筆錢然後我自己再多加一點然後我來做什麼綠美化或做什麼我跟你講塞車是你的問題啦綠美化是我的政績啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
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可以這樣嗎這筆錢重複的這樣子就會受到很大的影響所以我才說要做一個管考我覺得這一點真的很重要我想這個我們在現行的管考我想會把委員這個意見我們再加進來來檢視一下這些計畫的合理性應該是說它的內容的合理性你上次就這樣跟我講了是 這個我們其實在管考會議都有在討論 |
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我覺得這是一個要嚴肅去面對的問題啦既然有這筆錢我們希望他花的好啦而不是這樣子你如果把他執行的好我跟你講我不相信有哪個立委要再來說這筆錢怎麼樣做的不好怎麼樣我跟你講他如果這樣子敢這樣子講如果你把他管考好的話全台灣都看得出他的成果的時候誰會去說這個不好 |
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我覺得他自己就要就要面對人家的檢驗哪一個人能夠睜眼說瞎話我覺得你只要做得好人家就無法挑剔你啦所以在這樣的情況下像現在啦現在啦再給我30秒現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
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你所有的前瞻計畫如果有-1萬這樣子你很多的補助沒了喔是不是很多都沒了很多都沒了你們會不會挪用這些去填那裡不會因為兩個預算獎執行內容不一樣我知道執行內容我們在行政機關那麼久了啦可以怎麼樣我們大家都清楚我的意思是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
550.163 |
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該什麼樣的就是什麼樣的不要去做別的啦反正前瞻計畫被刪了現在已經是事實了 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
559.472 |
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不能給的就不能給了我覺得也只能這樣啦我們這筆錢我們這筆錢應該用在他原來的地方地方你管他什麼幾期幾期那個另外想辦法也不是現在可以解決的前瞻一直沒有通過的話大概不是只有要核定的案子會受影響可能連執行中的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
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602.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
都會受影響執行中的也會受影響那你執行中的你現在也沒辦法啊你內政部你也不可能拿出其他的錢來啦你反而要趕快讓地方知道錢就已經到這裡了要怎麼收要怎麼去那個可以現在處理你不要現在不處理到時候又衍生一堆問題來我覺得應該是這樣子錢都已經被刪了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
608.371 |
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637.19 |
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對不對 你不可能去伸出錢來吧沒錯 所以我們其實在之前的管考會議都已經有通知地方政府了就是原來預計核定的案子都停下來那執行中的案子我們就撥付到一定程度我們就不再撥款對 要先跟他們講我覺得這個要讓地方也有一個應變那像我們今天在討論的這個我必須要說一句如果預算沒解凍 你要先跟他們講 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
638.371 |
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是沒有就是沒有啦不要現在他說他要繼續發包到時候發包完再跟你講說他已經發包了我覺得不應該欸這個是浪費錢欸浪費地方政府的錢欸他不要再去做任何發包的程序了了解因為生活圈是一個長期的計畫對一旦有中間有一個預算受到影響其實他連帶後面整個受影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
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但我的意思就是說你說的是沒有錯但是如果你他會地方政府有的或承辦的他沒有去管他他就先照計畫去發包那你發包完了反正也沒錢第一個浪費你去發包的錢第二個你沒有錢下來你反而衍生一堆問題到時候承包商到時候要來找你們什麼我跟你講他到時候會推給你內政部說內政部就沒給我錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
690.608 |
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這些我認為現在都要去預備我們這個預算這樣子因為我們剛也問了就是說行政院內政部也還沒有辦法去確確算出多少錢來我們也沒有去做解凍的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
704.164 |
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732.11 |
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那沒有在這個情況之下我跟你講現在已經四月了啦可以預期今年很多都不能做了啦也做不了了啦不要浪費人民的納稅錢你反而要他們集中精力做哪些可以做的那這些長期計劃性的看明年的預算可以明年再補給他們我覺得這樣子才是解決問題啦不然你會變成中央跟地方空耗 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
732.987 |
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739.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
沒有錢的空號這我們已經有在檢討會議跟地方政府做說明請讓議委因應 謝謝好 謝謝張宏祿召委 下一位我們請 |