| IVOD_ID |
159851 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159851 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-02T10:17:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-02T10:27:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/af9684606460b582c4929212fbf0a9b836631c288f31339d332f76852384cc9e7e067b1efe2647ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林俊憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:17:14 - 10:27:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查國家通訊傳播委員會函為修正「應經核准之電信管制射頻器材」、「電信管制射頻器材製造輸入及申報作業管理辦法」及「電信管理業務規費收費標準」第十四條條文案。
二、審查(一)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第八條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「電信管理法第五條及第八條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)委員鍾佳濱等21人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第九條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「電信管理法第九條及第四十條條文修正草案」案及(五)委員陳俊宇等19人擬具「電信管理法第七十五條條文修正草案」案。
【上午詢答、下午處理】） |
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| gazette.lineno |
331 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
林委員俊憲：（10時17分）感謝主席，本席邀請NCC代主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：好，陳代主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
林委員俊憲：主委早。剛剛在講預算的問題，主委你要講清楚啦，NCC沒有辦法運作，不是因為凍結，是刪除的問題啦，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，刪了…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
林委員俊憲：你的單位業務費7,517萬，你被刪除多少？四千多萬嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：刪掉將近55%。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
林委員俊憲：你剩下3,354萬，房租一年要2,562萬，這樣就大概剩下800萬，而你們一個月的業務費大概要四百多萬，所以NCC不是因為凍結的問題，你趕快送來解凍啦，如果我們在野黨的委員要幫忙，那很好，但凍結的部分只有四百多萬嘛，10%而已…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，業務費凍結…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
林委員俊憲：給你解凍，可以多活一個月啦！如果按照你目前可動支的預算，4月你就沒錢了，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，如果房租…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
林委員俊憲：你4月就沒錢了，好，趕快解凍，活到5月啦！那6月以後怎麼辦？還不是沒錢，重點是在刪除50%啦！哪一個單位可以刪50%還能活的？哪一個個人、家庭被砍掉一半的收入，生活還能夠不受影響的？就不可能嘛！你要講清楚，但是如果要解凍，好，就趕快來解凍，多活一個月也好啦，5月過後再想辦法。你剛剛說怎麼解決，請房東先不要收房租？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：就是延後租…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
林委員俊憲：延後收，你看，我們立法院朝野刪預算刪到房東要付出代價，你去拜託看看，去跟你們房東拜託一下啦。好，回來講今天我們大家關心的議題，第一個就是750元的問題嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
林委員俊憲：我想這部分NCC的政策轉向很清楚，現在是不收嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，現在是停徵狀態。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
林委員俊憲：目前是停徵狀態，不過因為去年通過這個收費的辦法，這是行政命令嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，行政命令、法規命令。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
林委員俊憲：也就是說如果依NCC自己公布的行政命令，現在要收750元，但是因為外界大家反對，所以NCC現在是跟財政部談好了，財政部有同意嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，用規費法方式停徵。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
林委員俊憲：就停徵，目前是停徵狀態。你要把這個問題解決，就是你要把那個行政命令給拿掉，對不對？要修改。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，把它修改。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
林委員俊憲：把它修改成不收這筆錢。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，如果不收的話，就是要把原來收費這個項目改掉。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
林委員俊憲：你的行政命令要改，但你現在能不能改行政命令？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：現在沒辦法。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
林委員俊憲：不能，因為你們沒委員，沒有委員的話只能先用停徵，我們希望未來朝野能夠有一個共識，希望能夠解決NCC目前沒有委員的這種狀態。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
林委員俊憲：不管用什麼方式。但是在新的NCC委員產生以前，在還沒有修改目前規定要收費的行政命令的狀態下，我們只能持續不斷的停徵，是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，目前的情況是這樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
林委員俊憲：這個大概是行政單位還有朝野的共識，所以目前就繼續停徵，一直到你把這個辦法修改完。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
林委員俊憲：修改的前提條件就是NCC要有委員產生。不過還有一個問題，畢竟這個會產生費用，我看了一下，你這個二級電信管制射頻器材的輸入案件越來越多，因為現在大家都在網路買東西，我看從2年前的一年兩萬兩千九百多件，現在到4萬件了，那4萬個piece你一定需要一些行政支出才有辦法去檢查，第一，你現在又沒有業務費了、又被砍一半了；第二，你如果不跟人家收這筆錢，那你NCC如何來解決這些案量？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們這邊加強引入類AI的方式…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
林委員俊憲：對，你要用類AI，為什麼我們要收750？因為我們目前的檢查其實比較落後，你都要請人力，我調查一下，你大概要請5個到6個才能處理這麼多件。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
林委員俊憲：這些人在幹嘛？只是在對照它的規格、說明書看看有沒有符合。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：還有切結書。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
林委員俊憲：還有切結書，都需要用人的眼睛去對，基本上等於都靠勞力，所以你才需要收750，其實你只要提高效率、導入類AI的那個技術，你可以節省這些人力，你就不用跟人家收這些錢，這樣才是澈底解決的辦法。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：也請委員支持我們，我們明年會編這個預算。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
林委員俊憲：我們會支持，當然你…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
林委員俊憲：也要跟在野黨立委溝通一下，預算砍成這樣，你的單位根本沒辦法運作，哪有這樣砍一半、五成的！我都不曉得你5月以後怎麼辦？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][1] |
再來，今天大家討論的另外一點就是關於目前網路上一些IASP的問題，如果我們政府已經把它封鎖的網站，很多人會利用這些IASP或者是MVNO的這些管制方法，其實最主要就是電信管理法修法把它修掉，二類電信都不用管制了，你當時是因為產業變化很快等等，但是後來確實產生一些問題，現在二類電信的問題看起來，國會這邊是希望你們要趕快納管，否則會有一些失控的狀態，那你現在的看法呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：誠如委員這這張簡報所提示的，MVNO這一塊我們目前在子法納管，如果也拉上母法裡頭、明文列在那邊，我們是尊重、也支持；關於IASP，我們內部討論本來就是支持，但是現在要提出代表NCC的條文有困難，因為委員會的關係，但是我們目前階段的內部幕僚作業都支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
林委員俊憲：支持的話，其實應該要有NCC的版本，因為今天都是立委的版本，本席也有連署本黨鍾佳濱委員的版本，就是我們要管制二類電信還有IASP。至於要怎麼管，我想行政單位負責任的話應該也要提出你的版本。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們內部都有研議，但是要提出代表機關出去的，現在卡在一般正常程序SOP必須要委員會議通過，目前比較有這方面的挑戰。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
林委員俊憲：另外，目前二類電信在電信管理法修法後就改為自願登記制，是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：是，也跟委員報告，原來電信法下二類電信的範圍很廣，包括這邊所講的MVNO、IASP，還包括其他跟資訊服務很接近的一些服務，比方說語音會議服務、視訊會議服務這些都變成app，所以納管會比較有困難、也會影響ICT產業發展。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
林委員俊憲：但是你所謂的自願登記制現在有幾家來登記？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：IASP的部分目前有65家登記。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
林委員俊憲：有65家來登記？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：是…… |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
林委員俊憲：什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：六十幾家。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
林委員俊憲：請問六十幾家都有來登記嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：有些是結束營業不需要，但是電信法時期有一百多家，現在是有六十幾家。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
林委員俊憲：你知道的有六十幾家？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
林委員俊憲：實際上，目前是在沒有管制的狀態下？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：有一些黑數，但有來登記的是六十幾家，沒有來登記而我們視為黑數的部分，如果比照電信法時期當然會有一些落差，但是有些是因為它經營不…… |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
林委員俊憲：所以來登記的大概六成、五成，那其他的黑數怎麼辦？你採用自願登記制，實際上看起來沒有辦法落實你的管理！因為社會也發生很多的事件，所以現在才希望NCC在這方面的管制應該要重從嚴。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，所以這一塊我們也是支持IASP要納管。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
林委員俊憲：如果行政單位跟立委、國會這邊大概都有共識的話，這個部分就是如何管的問題，還有一些……我想管制二類電信、管制IASP這個應該是大家……你們也都同意嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，IASP是二類電信裡頭的一部分…… |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
林委員俊憲：就一小部分。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：但是跟打詐相對比較有關聯的，這邊我們是支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
林委員俊憲：支持？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，納管。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
林委員俊憲：謝謝主委、謝謝主席。 |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
陳代理主任委員崇樹：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
主席：謝謝林俊憲委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][1] |
特別跟大會報告，我們稍等一下到徐富癸委員質詢完畢就休息10分鐘。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][2] |
現在請何欣純委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
272 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-3-23-5 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳雪生 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
魯明哲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
207 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-04-02 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1143401 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1143401_00007 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、審查國家通訊傳播委員會函為修正「應經核准之電信管制射頻器材」、「電信管制射頻器材
製造輸入及申報作業管理辦法」及「電信管理業務規費收費標準」第十四條條文案；二、審查
(一)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第八條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)
台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「電信管理法第五條及第八條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)委員鍾佳濱等21
人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第九條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具
「電信管理法第九條及第四十條條文修正草案」案及(五)委員陳俊宇等19人擬具「電信管理法第
七十五條條文修正草案」案 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1143401_00009 |