| IVOD_ID |
159804 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159804 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-31 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-31T10:29:35+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-31T10:43:34+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/22902bedf9a457e5fc21f7df99e6ea6eab992d8b3314b746782ddb04f65b48d20bb9a68193f37aa45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:29:35 - 10:43:34 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-31T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、內政部首長及國家科學及技術委員會首長就「2025年防洪抗旱計畫」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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好不容易上個禮拜五電價審議委員會推翻了台電漲9%的漲價 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
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我們現在期待的是好好做改革不只不要再漲了可以降可是老實講我非常擔心我這幾天一拜五到今天我看經濟部發出來的新聞稿都是頭痛在移腳我是不曉得你們到底是沒有搞清楚真正的狀況還是故意在造謠我先請你來看一個我們非常具體的來看來 市長你看一下這是台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
61.943 |
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71.6 |
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一月份的財報一月份啦 光是今年的一月份台電又虧損了97億你看虧損最嚴重的是哪一個虧損的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
77.076 |
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101.676 |
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你應該是把那個虧損那個洞把它補起來對不對那目前你一直在說天然氣?天然氣的部分它的這個所謂的國際的價格還是相對於高檔左右啦所以我們會看到說它現在是有有比這個外國燃煤虧更多的啦光電虧了5.8啊風電虧了56億啊而且這樣很重要你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
107.858 |
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這兩個加起來才佔你所有發電量的8.5可是它賠掉你這個月的65%你天然氣買那麼多你才賠了15億結果你買光電特別是風電佔我們所有發電量的8.5%可是你賠掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
129.537 |
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153.367 |
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60幾億就是你一月份賠的65%100塊的賠的錢裡面有65%是風電跟光的風電跟光電沒有委員台電公司一年的支出近兆元他買綠電只有900億元以去年為例的話他只佔了13%他怎麼可能虧到五六千億這是不是你的財報表你看你的財報表所以這個我覺得跟你說的油跟電 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
159.59 |
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167.981 |
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油跟氣的這個價格還在相對於高檔的這個部分啊對啦 我是問你啦哪個賠最多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
171.189 |
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195.59 |
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你可以講你的天然氣可能還賠了15億問題是你風電賠了56光電賠了5.8而且它量很少耶你的天然氣已經超過50%了對不對左邊不是我們的財報啦右邊這個才是啊那我跟委員所說明的核能佔比最高的韓國它超過了30%事實上它的電價漲幅還比我們更高 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
196.531 |
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212.339 |
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所以基本上我目前六千億的虧損為什麼說上個禮拜五電價審議委員會要討論這麼久我們逐一的來核算報告所委員所指導的部分事實上這些虧損不是台電的經營不善的主因市長你現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
214.5 |
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234.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
要讓我們人民的電價不只不要漲要降你現在可以看你破洞破在哪個地方嘛我就很清楚跟你講破洞你看很清楚對不對破洞最大是哪裡風電嘛對不對就是用比例來看都是光啊就是再生能源啊那這個是可以改的第一個你現在開始在賣RE RE30對不對你要多賣一點第二個不要買太貴的還有一個還有一個賺錢的呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
240.916 |
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266.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
核能賺多少錢?核能在今年一月份還幫你們賺錢賺了八億多欸核能如果核一沒有重啟核二、核三都可以用的話一年是一千億欸你把賺錢的一千億把它丟掉然後呢?你在賽車農園這一塊你又多花錢你當然就漲價啊來,我再跟你講你現在最嚴重的問題你一直在講天然氣的價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
270.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
294.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
一直漲上次在去年我第一次質詢這個王美花跟陳建仁院長的時候他們就已經承認這一點啊我們的天然氣在2022年跟2023年到達一個高峰對不對2023年兩年前就降下來了對不對你看一下這個趨勢圖看到沒有看到沒有到2025年現在的趨勢現在的天然氣是不是跟2018 2019只多了一點點來我要更進一步給你看看下一張圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
301.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
307.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
最近這三年天然氣的發電量跟購買金額你天然氣越買越多從110年的3260到112年3434到今年3296最嚴重是優編你沒有發現他的平均單價已經在降了嘛結果你一直在對外講說我們的天然氣很貴113年有沒有比112年便宜有沒有有沒有降下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
333.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
337.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個數字並不是我們台電的財務的報表或是我們電價審議委員會所討論的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
346.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
362.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那事實上 討論重點是不是不是 市長你的意思是 基本上我們的本價審議委員會有志之士 當初是有修正好我們讓專家跟外部委員多了1%所以這次他們做了一個非常公平的顧及到不要衝擊到物價不要衝擊到這個產業 很好啊可是你現在誤導啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
367.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
386.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
人家已經做了不要漲價而且要檢討你整個成本那你就我給你看的是非常具體的第一個天然氣在兩年前已經降下來了這個很清楚吧113年一度的話2.75比112年的3.17便宜很多吧這是天然氣第二個你的再生能源你的風跟電 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
388.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
399.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
光 確實買太貴嘛那我也知道你們現在改進了我今天又跟你講 R130你要趕快賣你用那貴的價格買進來 趕快要賣出去對不對 這個漏洞之後變少來 我們看一下另外是核電的問題核電啦 核一跟核二核三一年差不多400多億度的電嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
410.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
423.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你現在核電一度 成本一塊多嘛你現在所有的電是三塊多嘛 對不對每賣一度電 大概會賺兩塊多啊400多億度 乘起來就是一千億耶好 所以我做個簡單總結那個 市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
426.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
441.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第一不要一直在講天然氣成本高漲這個問題它在前年就這樣下來了第二個你的再生能源我今天給你看的是報表光是一夜噴的時候你的風跟電跟光就賠了那麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
443.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
459.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
它占所有有總發電量的8點多%結果賠掉了你的60幾%這當然就是表示問題啊所以第一個你要去不要買那麼貴第二個買進來以後不用髒電的價格賣出去你讓那個距離讓這個虧損可以減少第二個趕快重啟核電 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
462.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
480.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
今天教委委員會已經在審了我們先把法源通過之後我們可以做一個可以重啟核電延長核電日本已經在重啟啊美國在重啟南韓也在重啟啊你別說南韓南韓就是電價太高啊所以他兩年多前他開始在重啟核電啊讓他的電價會降下來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
483.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
497.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
人家全世界都在做那台灣到底是什麼全世界只有民進黨政府跟世界潮流要對算嗎並沒有並沒有我請那個總經理再說明包委員其實有很多數字都有問題啦你剛剛提很多都有問題包括第一個綠電綠電的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
500.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
521.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
目前留在台電手上的囤購大概都是比較早期因為我們要鼓勵再生能源所以當時的囤購費比較高那部分還在台電其他的像今年的那些太陽能幾乎都便宜的都出去了所以也就是說再生能源繼續發展下去它的成本是會越來越低的可是你的再生能源到現在你價格還是在往上走對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
522.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
544.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
價格大概今年到明年就是到頂的接著下來就是往下的到頂都還是很高啊我給他看一下發展再生能源是全世界各國的趨勢這個出奇的鼓勵是一定要做的總經理你看一下我們是理性物質科學在問政我們讓書記講話最近這三年再生能源這個價格你看110年平均單價多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
546.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
571.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
4.75到了112年上升5.20到了去年5.46一直在往上走耶當初蔡英文總統跟我們講我們買的這個電再生能源這個量會變大以後價格就降下來到現在不只沒降啊還在漲啊所以已經持續在降了只是說各位您也知道那個數字整體量是慢慢往下但是今年的量 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
572.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
576.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
價格已經都一直往下了就是這個價格我們還會檢視今年2016到2020氣價的均價是9塊到目前為止我們預估是15.4塊那基本上還是在相對的高檔 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
587.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
614.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以跟委員所說明的是我們經過這個討論事實上這兩年確實是一個國際燃料價格的一個高峰那現在雖然稍微委員講說有稍微降下來是回到這個情況對啊 降下來而且你從一月份看得出來嘛它虧損沒有那麼嚴重啦它跟疫情前的話來 我們做個結論啦它跟疫情前還是相對來天然氣在兩年前已經降下來了你說稍微高一點點也沒有造成你很嚴重的虧損你去跟風 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
617.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
626.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
風電跟光電比這個洞是最大的所以你要趕快去補這個最大的洞第二個大的洞就是核電跟112年的能源價格飛漲的一個狀況那剛剛委員所講的是舉兩年前的這個狀況這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
634.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
645.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
跟我們剛剛敘述的是不一樣的事情因為那兩年的話是虧了六千億所以你已經補了三次三千億啊漲了四次電價啊漲了四十趴欸市長你們用人民的納稅錢民脂民膏三千億已經補上去了漲了四次的這個電價該補該補該把這兩年的該夠了吧該夠了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
663.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
681.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
過去台電公司我們實質撥補給台電公司只有500億其中2500億是為了投資未來讓台電的電網更韌性韌性更好 它是增資的增資不能來抵抵下這個時候的開支的部分你已經漲了人民市市電價漲了40幾%你說這兩年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
687.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
711.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
還補不過來嗎而且現在已經回到這個原點了好更重要的你現在開源節流嘛我告訴你你地電趕快不要買那麼貴趕快多賣出去你的收入就會進來嘛對不對我看你的五大改革裡面有這一項嘛要多賣然後第二個核電我們今天教科文教文委員會已經在審了趕快重建核電比我們高出那麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
712.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
731.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
它的價格成本比我們更高而且他們撥補的這個預算啊還曾經比我們現在台電公司所說的五百億元更高啊市長這是用卡達夫形容好不好不是當然全世界美國連歐盟現在都在重啟核電嘛就是因為不只穩定電價是低的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
732.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
758.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那你現在就是讓你現在既然有虧損當然就是用便宜的電啊所以才講到說核電是要重啟的第二個你買了太貴的這個再生能源你想辦法要買便宜一點嘛對不對第二個趕快把它賣出去嘛這個沒有爭議啊現在所有再生能源的所有的平均的成本慢慢會下降但另外事實上所新的是看到今年一月份一月份都還沒有降嘛再回到第一章一月份的看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
759.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
781.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你要跟人民交代為什麼核能一個月可以賺8億多你不要把它丟到水裡面去然後風電一個月損失了56億光電損失了5.8億你要跟人民交代是這個你要解決這兩個問題不是我不知道委員你藍色的左邊這個數字是怎麼去算的從你左邊右邊整理出來的啊沒有沒有那個盈虧沒有這樣算法的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
784.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
794.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那你給我一個詳細的數目字好不好我們來對一下不過在怎麼講怎麼對你就是買風電規則是最嚴重嘛比例去看光電也是最嚴重那你一個禮拜內給我你說這個不夠精準你給我一個禮拜我們來對一下好不好我們跟全民交代最重要的資料市長我跟你講最重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
806.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
824.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
上個禮拜這是一個天大的好消息大家都鬆了一口氣人民鬆一口氣產業鬆一口氣那你們責任現在就是趕快去檢討整個能源界過什麼地方出問題再生能源核電對不對檢討好了以後10月份才不用漲電價啊可以降啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
825.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
834.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
一心同意啦好不好一心同意你一個禮拜給我你說這個不會精準一個禮拜給我一個明確的我們來對一下那到時候我們跟前面講到底哪個是比較準的好不好好謝謝委員好謝謝 |