| IVOD_ID |
159677 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159677 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-27T10:16:35+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-27T10:30:59+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:24 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ae27c1b40c0db900df8435e1c10242d41e62e9fce1db2a031f25d2de176b75bcb92ba5236964c1d45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蔡易餘 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:16:35 - 10:30:59 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、農業部部長、內政部首長、財政部首長、行政院主計總處首長就「鄉村發展總體檢討及如何提升城鄉發展韌性之規劃方向」進行報告，並備質詢。【3月26日及27日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
11.718 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好 謝謝那我們是不是有請國安會副組委以及農業部次長和內政部國土管理署的副署長還有那個農村發展及水土保持署一樣是副署長我們請四位一起謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
40.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
66.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
針對今天安排的這樣的一個命題那主要我們事實上都很關心從剛剛所有發言的委員大家都在關心說國土計畫法展延了六年那這六年我們究竟要做什麼事情那我想先還是就整個台灣的一個前提雖然我們知道台灣的鄉村是在凋零這個台灣的鄉村凋零這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
67.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
89.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
是非常的速度非常的快比少子化的問題還要嚴重就是鄉村凋零所以你來看喔在2022年的時候在那一個年度天下雜誌就有做出了一個就是說他已經統計說當一個年度他在那一年已經說有11個村裡台灣有11個村裡是連鎖5當沒有新生兒 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
95.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
113.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
包括新北也有苗栗南投我們嘉義縣的布袋的考試里梅山的壁虎里台南高雄宜蘭澎湖都有這樣連續五年沒有新生兒然後在2022年那一年全台灣有179個叫做五子村里 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
114.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
132.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那新北市是居冠就是那個增淘沒孩子出息那這代表的原因是什麼呢?背後意涵的意義是什麼呢?就是增淘變沒路用於增淘為什麼會變沒路用於?就是鄉村裡面的建地 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
134.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
155.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
第一個,地權、地用第一個地權的問題鄉村的建地因為價錢的關係,池分越分越細池分變細,基本上後面的人要輸贏賣贏本來我們這個家族有一個人他財力比較好,他說好我來把過去家裡的三合院我來打敲敲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
155.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
181.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
哇 可是家裡不同的人有意見啊不同沒人幫的有意見那我就不能使用所以你看整個鄉村大概年輕人想要回到鄉村去說我回來我出生的這個部落我要在這裡恢復是沒有機會的這是第一個第二個咧整個鄉村是讓他的機能不見了過去喔過去我們在鎮卡路是騎腳踏車 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
185.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
193.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
現在的交通就不是腳踏車,現在差不多都賣塞車你看整台車都是小型的,一台車要塞進去就要有工夫、要有技術整台車就老實說是小型車 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
201.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
219.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
所以我要跟我們在場與會的我們各位長官我們一直在講說 鄉村的社區要有所謂的三生我們可以說地方創生的三生是什麼 要有什麼生態 要有生活 要有生產 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
221.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
237.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這我們都講得很好聽,大家都會...我都會背啊問題咧?我們鄉村的蒸頭咧?有...沒錢啦!對不對?沒辦法生活沒心酸就...加蒸頭的一間乾媽店看起來要為錢就有困難了過去那種用酒乾媽店,哇!充滿著我們過去故鄉的感覺都不見了那間乾媽店沒辦法生存啦生態也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
251.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
278.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以我具體要說的就是說既然我們這六年的時間我們要有所作為啊這個作為咧就是這次我們打鄉規入法那鄉規入法有一個很大的重點就是我們要怎麼樣協助每一個村莊尤其是越偏鄉的村莊越沒人住的村莊十分越複雜的村莊我們要怎麼協助他們整合產權 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
282.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
308.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
叫他們整合產權 這要有時間 大家要去等他們他們要有整個 而且你們這個鄉規路法你們要把一些鄉規 鄉村規劃的模擬範本要告知這些人就是說這一個鄉村裡面要有多少的建地 建地要重整道路用地 路要變大條這個鄉村裡面要有多少商業機能 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
310.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
328.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
就是要有多少地方是用作生意的你這些東西都要處理要怎麼處理呢?很簡單的你要求一條錢你要有一個基金這個基金我們看要用哪些保險基金怎樣大家來談你要有一個基金要大家的氣氛 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
332.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
343.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
如果我是所有權人我覺得這個池噴對我來說是一個負擔的他可以用合理鑑定後的一個價格把這個他的土地池噴賣給這樣的一個基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
345.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
364.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
你要賣給他 讓這個基金開始大家的氣氛湧起來未來在鄉村 在做於整個鄉村的這個都市計畫檢討的時候這個基金它等於就可以分配到土地分配到土地 那就是可以做未來這個政策的公共設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
366.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
374.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這就是我們要做的行為好我都說完了我想要聽一下我們國發會我們國土署跟我們農業部三個單位的意見好謝謝趙偉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
384.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
401.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
覺得還蠻興奮的那剛剛提到的就是如果我們就激動就是舊的一個社區其實尤其是農村社區其實它的吃份還有它的產權這些是相對複雜的所以我剛剛看 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
402.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
416.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
看委員的報告裡面其實有特別提到就是有關比較公的部分怎麼樣去做處理那我覺得這個其實真的可以從內政部這個有一個國土永續發展基金然後可以從他的鄉村地區整體規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
417.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
444.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
甚至鄉村的細部計畫這邊能夠去做一些可能的處理那當然我覺得過程是要溝通的因為要地方這麼多的人然後他們都有一些共識這需要時間所以我們這次還有六年我們這次的展演不是說兩年三年六年是要做事的六年協助整個鄉村把它活絡起來來我想再聽一下我們這個內政部我們國土署 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
447.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
467.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
謝謝趙偉跟蔡委員的質詢兩個人是同一個人是那第一件事情其實因為相規的制度它這空間制度就誠如您剛剛講您講得很清楚啦就是說我們在鄉村地區既有的很多的政策還有很多的計畫那這部分現在最後一路應該是所謂空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
469.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
496.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
包含產權的分合跟建築的部分這個部分還有一塊這個部分那這相關的設計其實在這邊就可以做第一件事做平台把這些資訊跨這邊去就如您所講的到底真正要集村集村要多大過去那東西怎麼調節然後再來其實是相關的配套例如農寵這些相關的配套把它整進來然後還有公共設施的錢那麼跟委員報告如果要做這件事除了錢之外我個人認為還要人 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
498.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
510.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
沒有 因為量很大而且還要專業的培育每個村莊都會有不同的狀況這個在我們的國土署裡面教育訓練這些東西我們都有規劃都在去做努力跟相關部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
531.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
還是需要各部會的一起協助,這部分我們一定配合所有的部會一起努力把這個永續跟繁榮的農村把它找回來,謝謝好,謝謝國土署,那我們再請農業部,非常感謝總召這個指教,其實我們不是總召,是召委召委的這個指教,其實這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
535.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
545.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
國土計畫法裡面有城鄉發展區,還有農業發展區,農業發展區的農事就是剛才委員你在說的,這個部分是我們在農業部,我們的農村再生有在做的。另外就是城鄉發展區裡面,城二裡面,它是鄉村,但是不是農業,這也是鄉村區。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
574.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以這大概一半去分布 我覺得這比較有必要的跨部會的整合 由國會出來因為我們現在在做什麼 我們在做就是農村再生 培根計畫 或者是把它合訂然後對地方的公共建設 還有這些跨域的整合 還有教育訓練等等市長 你剛才有說到城鄉區跟農業發展區但是我覺得 就我要跟你指教的啦 我覺得你講的是現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
582.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
601.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
就是現況它就是它以現況去變 它現在這樣去改變 可是現在現況就是很糟糕啊就是我講的啊 那個蒸頭 聖保羅用蒸頭一樣的我再比一下咧 我們如果有一個叫極限村 永賢村 極限什麼叫極限就是那裡老闆65歲以上的 超過一半 超過50%都是65歲以上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
606.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
627.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那個部落 都沒有以為要出生所以那個部落的一個整個生命力沒有了好 如果我是在一個村莊的人我跟你說我們六角出了三個署長侯友宜署長 陳國恩署長還有一個以前的 以前的廖正豪廖正豪出這麼多老人 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
628.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
649.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
出這麼多老人的地方就算我拿著一筆錢想要說我一定要把我的政壇待遇復甦沒辦法啦因為老人就沒配合你啦所以現在國土局法會被人家罵咧就是你們只是把現況換個名字這個現況換一個名字才會被罵嘛因為沒有改變嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
650.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
666.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你聽我的意思嗎我知道我知道 那個所有管沒辦法套我現在是說我們有這六檔我們要套這件事情所以好我現在具體建議啦第一個我認為說我們要有一個六年計畫剛才說因為你要每一個村莊你要叫他們去幾位要有那些人 既然要有一群人來遊說我們來參加鄉村重新規劃他們要登出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
676.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
683.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
他們要投出來 市長也要投50%出來嘛相關要50% 這50%要怎麼投出來這要有一群人 要有一群人去那裡招種我們就要有所謂的一個預算所以這六年計畫你們這三個單位應該是要由國發會整合剩下農業部跟我們內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
698.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
715.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
六年計劃,要有一筆錢,你就看台灣有多少薄荷,你就除以六,大概一年,需要我們來輔導多多少已經失去生活機能的鄉村,讓他去做鄉規,就要有錢,因為你要訓練這裡的人。第二,我剛才說的,你要有一筆基金, |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
720.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
737.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
開始來這裡氣氛,沒路用的氣氛,開始修修回來,修越多,未來我們鄉歸內這一個村莊它才會有更多道路的空間要有公共設施保留地,村頭裡面也要進去創一個小公園這樣也比較有生態 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
741.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
769.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以你要有公共設施保留地 你要有可以做太陽枯的間諜在那邊藝學館也可以在那裡做生意這個鄉村才會活起來啊所以跟這兩件事我拜託你們要有一個進度至少現階段三個月內你們能不能先把所謂鄉規我們理想中的鄉村長什麼樣子的範本先把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
770.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
785.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
先把他拉出來給我們看好不好好謝謝這件事是不是這個範本的事情我們會一起努力不過那個國務組這邊是主管機關是不是三個月內三個月內未來走向最後的一個範本 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
788.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
803.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
委員垂詢的部分的高度跟戰略性非常高啦三個月因為我這也不是非常高啦我意思是說這就是要開始下去處理了嘛我也沒有說這一時三刻有辦法的總是我們先把整個風雲抓出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
805.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
825.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
一起開會可以嗎?好啦我再來辦公廳會啦,可是你們就是要,那你們至少把現在有在走鄉規的,就我知道有六十幾個嘛是你們把它都整理出來,然後每一個鄉規完,他們的這個政策,他們的間諜怎麼重新調整,他們的路怎麼圍,我要看,大家拿出來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
829.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
845.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
趕快整理啦 不要嘗試啦 這本來就是要整理的 要不然怎麼輔導別人去做你應該 現在已經有成功 也許做了沒很成功的事情也是一個範本大家拿出來看 要不然我就去輔導新的團隊出來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
847.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
864.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好不好 你如果這個都不走出來基本上這六年會變成空蕩蕩的六年啦六年後大家也是新的一輩子在外面發生的我們這裡大家不在這裡也新的一輩子說 再十年再十年 十年謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝謝謝余召委 |