| IVOD_ID |
159653 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159653 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-27T09:24:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-27T09:37:16+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ae27c1b40c0db900bf3e055392bce1b87648dfe0a0275fc5ab2aca70ba98bac07778f5872ee59a395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳昭姿 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:24:43 - 09:37:16 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、國家發展委員會、教育部、法務部針對「少子女化衝擊，如何營造友善托育環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席有請呂次長還有國發會副主委是離開了嗎那就麻煩謝署長謝處長好謝謝好次長請好次長早 處長早 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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今天根據我們主題剛剛聽到很多的書字我想是不是就各部會需要負責的部分國發會因為我一直覺得少子化是推來推去的問題好像沒有一個主責單位我想請這個就蓋瓜承受一下就是你們為自己的評分你們為了少子化政策的成效我想先請呂次長你幫你這部門評分然後再是謝署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.013 |
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報告委員非常感謝委員對我們小子女化的一個關心那其實對於我們來說我們永遠永遠都沒有滿意的時候永遠都沒有滿意的時候那我想這個部分真的我們大家要共同滿意市長阿列丹宮不及格嗎 |
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67.728 |
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我們這邊我們同仁都非常非常用心這個是整個國安問題我想我們大家都要來共同努力那處長呢 國發會這個部分呢你覺得打幾分呢謝謝委員的關心報告委員那在整個人口政策的推動上面會分了幾個部分來負責我們國發會負責每兩年進行一次的總分 及格不及格 |
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剛剛丟到那麼多數字我想全國又認為不及格嘛好不好就是說我們來看我們再來看數字各部會都共同在人口政策方面在做努力但是我覺得這個跨部會的東西大家都丟來丟去啦沒有人敢直接承擔剛剛念的數字齁其實我們看這個數字真的是看圖圖線 曲線真的是驚心動魄齁那大家都知道龍年本來就是大家深海的時候那剛剛也報告其實2000年齁 |
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那時候出生是30.5萬那年是農年那2012年也是農年是22.9萬那去年也是農年啊這13.5萬還比前一年少之前都比前一年多3萬所以基本上就是史上最單月也是最低的單年也是最低的就是創下內政務統計以來是最低還有我們來看這個人口總數嚇死人了你們看這個往下走了就是出生的人數嘛 |
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往上走的是這個死亡人數嘛那剛剛報告說是因為疫情影響這個出生人數比較少好像不是喔你看2016年之前還起起伏伏2016年之後就整個往下走啊你看那個斜線的這個下降速度一樣啊跟這個 |
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疫情是那一段啦 之前就開始下降啦就是沒人管啦所以我今天是想跟這個兩個部會這樣子就是有一個問題啦 就是說挽救生育率 次長就是尤其說除了就是我們一般的 現在還有一群這個需要做到好的托育的之外還有一群的不敢生養的議題我想跟衛福部還有教育部請教好嗎那謝謝處長就請回謝謝委員 謝謝 |
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我想我們這個圖可能次長您很熟悉就是說小子化不只是說孩子變少而已就是說每一個存在的孩子已經出生孩子其實都變得更重要更寶貝那如果要真心打造友善的一個托育環境除了談補助嘛剛剛談補助那增加名額啦那還有其他的問題也可以努力 |
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譬如說相關團體最近有提出一個早期療癒早療的部分資源嚴重缺乏讓很多人陷入育兒的困境那很多家長他生出孩子以後他很不安他很焦慮所以當他還是被通報被通報之後他完全無所適從那如果這個制度不適時的及時的提供他的制度的資源跟服務那這個友善托育其實這個資源對他們來說真的是個口號他們還是陷入整個育兒的困境那別人看他自己 |
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將來他是不敢生不想生這個感覺會更強烈所以市長你應該熟悉這個圖這個整個孩子的發育他當然有身體認知行為跟社交情緒等等如果在黃金期 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
259.424 |
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黃金旗啊 對沒有去掌握這個提供該做的這個資源的或照護的話那你知道到最後這個往上延伸很多體能落後啦 健康問題啦學習能力 學校表現啦未來的就業能力甚至行為的偏差反社會行為等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
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這個您知道因為您是學社福這個影響是很大那我要告訴次長是WHO有指出每延誤一年等一下我告訴你為什麼我們一直在強調每延誤一年孩子的學習跟發展能力受限超過20%那個損失是無法逆轉就一旦沒有把握住那個黃金期所以這一張次長 |
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300.282 |
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328.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
根據衛福部統計2017年到2024年全國被通報早療的孩子竟然有25萬多人那根據國教行動聯盟的統計數字其中竟然有22萬多人多孩子也就是將近九成的孩子他在通報的當年度那個年度他沒有辦法任何得到任何一次的療癒他擔保那為什麼呢因為通報像去年的通報量 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
329.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
345.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
市長您知道嗎去年通報找療的人士你知道嗎2024年有39000多人但是政府增加的量能是多少1483人等於說還有37000多位孩子被迫等待 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
346.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
373.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他在等然後聯合他被發現然後聯合評估竟然要4到6個月療癒服務還在排隊1到2年市長很嚴重你說小孩子的大腦神經發展可以排隊等待嗎所以這不是只有孩子問題家庭的壓力社會的代價那確實說孩子家長帶著疑慮去通報然後等待平均要等待兩三年才進得去找療體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
375.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
389.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那這個狀況對於鼓勵生育根本就是一個巨大的石頭啊巨大的這個這個阻力啊所以我也想再跟這個次長還有教育部這邊來討論我想下一張WHO跟聯合國兒童基金會他們都有強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
390.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
398.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個概念很重要他們說在nature care的framework他們有提到說所有兒童在生命最初的第一千天應該獲得營養保護保健及早期學習機會來促進全面發展意思是什麼呢這一千天決定了一輩子對沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
408.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
412.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以他們呼籲各國要成立跨部會的合作系統強化社區層級的早期識別跟轉機系統那次長右邊這個圖我不知道您熟不熟悉右邊的圖是德國那個經濟Hackman曲線就是投資的時候剛剛也提到早期的0到6歲國家一起照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
428.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你看看這個你越早看0到3歲我們看到對人的投資越早他們那個橫軸就是歲數年紀的時候投資的時間越早你的回報是越高的不管是孕期保健啊嬰兒的療癒或家庭支持但是最容易被忽略所以我想請教衛福部跟教育部我有三個問題第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
449.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
463.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
面對將近九成的早療個案你是否應該等待中的你是不是要盤點這個你的資源跟人力缺口是不是趕快具體的增加這個擴增那個時程表就怎麼樣我們來幫助這群人他們在等待中而且那個省待時間會過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
464.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
486.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第二個這個評估跟療癒的時間動輒要半年可不可以運用這個長照體系跟社區的據點來協助這些接送或者這個服務的一個轉弦這第二個就是說他們這個家長的負擔是非常大的第三個現行的補助跟媒合行政流程是不是太繁瑣了很多家庭機構想做做不到這三個問題是不是我請衛福部跟教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
490.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
518.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
能夠稍微做一個回應好嗎首先我真的要非常感謝委員對這個問題真的是非常非常透徹了解那我想我先回答三個重點第一個第一個有人找聊的部分就像您剛剛所引用的Hackman curve絕對而且從娘胎Prenatal就要趕快介入這第一個重點第二重點其實也是第二重點就是說您剛剛所說的這裡面有那個P就是早篩然後它的流程是這樣早篩評估開案然後到個管中心等等這些可不可以縮短那個時間然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
520.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
535.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以這個部分我們請那個問題我們知道我們怎麼解決問題是是沒錯好來請教育部教育部能做什麼這個學前特殊教育嘛因為醫療跟社福是衛福部要負責啊那這個教育部分衛福部也要配合嘛那處長您的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
538.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
552.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個數據您熟悉嗎您覺得有一些可以做的嗎教育部那個幾個部分第一個就是說有關於那個我們這個這邊我們委員報告我們事實上在我們的整個聯平中心就是你現在目前就早餐的部分就聯平啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
553.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
575.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
對 很久耶 四到六個月這是一個 我們現在目前已經我跟各位委員報告我們現在目前已經有整個縮減我現在先跟各位報告113年 我們現在目前有用17家兒童發展聯合中心這樣好吧 市長不好意思 因為時間有限你可以縮短 就overall可以因為等待人是9成 你可以預期你的效率要縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
576.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
586.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
到多久不要讓他們等兩三年才能開始一次的我們現在目前是這樣我們現在目前的這一個效率我先跟各位報告12年的時候58.2現在到我們是75.1那我們覺得這個還是不夠還是要趕快再來再來說了這第一點另外負評的個案45天之內的完評率從12年是84.8我們提高到94.6那現在這是一個另外第二個就你剛剛說有關那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
599.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
603.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那個篩檢的部分我們現在目前也全力在推動推動跟一些醫院他們門診還有包括幼兒園那邊來趕快來做這個整個時間的縮短那至於您剛剛說的有關於長照那邊只要他有符合這個disability那個認定的話我們就會來建立長照要支援這樣的家庭啊是是是沒錯這個也是托育一部分的概念在裡面嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
623.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
629.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
真的孩子的發展不能等啦我覺得這個我覺得他已經錯過黃金時期因為他會來對不對好但我再問最後一個問題次長那個身心障礙者權益保障法因為17年沒修啦沒錯沒錯所以你要知道他們有抗議啦很多法你都放這麼久不管科技進步或時代人權觀念意識的改變我請問你你現在有在修法中嗎你的草案有進度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
645.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
657.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
包委員我們現在目前其實我們事實上上個會期就已經送進來那我知道就是說中間有一些爭議那我們現在重新 你知道爭議點在哪裡嗎其實我知道其實主要事實上就是就是有關於那個自立生活的定義嘛你們太保守了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
660.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
687.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我們現在目前已經跟這一個團體我們現在目前已經跟他談一個就是說我們是不是可以先來做一個PILOT PROJECT就是說他們現在就是一個試驗的一個計畫那這裡面我們幫他就是說包括整個自立生活還有我們現在目前的整個長照我們現在是不是可以做一些某些的試點所以你們的自立生活的定義有開始接近嗎接近這個身障男女期間我們嘗試再跟這個團體來做溝通然後文委員報告就是說我們現在目前申請公約現在進度上已經送到立法已經送到行政院去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
688.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
714.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
就是說基本上就是 我想這個概念要不同以前是保護嘛 做一個像是要醫療的類似悲劇就是讓他自主能夠選擇他的生活方式嘛沒錯 委員也一直在倡導以前是medical model現在我們現在要走入是所謂的social model這個所謂更多的這一個所以你要納入個人助理你會不會納入個人助理 入法報告委員 我們現在目前就自立生活的部分 我們現在 來 這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
717.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
733.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
個人助理入法還有障礙者自立生活的權利這個精神有沒有放在新的法案裡面個人助理的部分我們會包含在自立生活的概念底下那自立生活會在這次的條文裡面我們已經把自立生活有做更完整的一個規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
734.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
747.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我想要跟需求者還有跟時代的概念對不對早期我們對芒包在家裡最安全現在不是我們都要讓他們出去嘛走出去嘛不要讓人家看了這些例子不敢生不敢養好嗎好請繼續努力 |