| IVOD_ID |
159613 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159613 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-26T10:21:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-26T10:34:55+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8cb7ec0b2cd1ea341a1a02faeebd86b7280a1269ac70bedcde8218cd9f46c9a1810c634bed58f9205ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:21:28 - 10:34:55 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月26日及27日二天一次會】） |
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請保定好 我們再請部長各位好保定 我們現在來關心我們台灣同基層同線量的農民我想請你跟我一起追一個很悲傷 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
38.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
61.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
也是很多這個漁民啊碰到的這個困擾我要給你看的這個個案,來下一張圖,這個是漁民業者跟政府三叔的一個漁電共生的這個案子那我們共同來努力,現在大家都急來捕破網,我給你看,我們來看一下這個圖,請播下一張後面你看,這就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
63.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
81.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
這就是嘉義議長號稱我們全台灣第一個餘電共生的第一案在嘉義議長的台女餘電共生的案子你看喔這本來是很好的一個疑問嘛對不對你對農民我了解這疑問本來很好結果為了要推動這個餘電共生他業者進去施工 你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
90.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
117.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
竟然有人把那個基樁插滿在魚塭裡面這是第一個大問題嘛這怎麼養魚怎麼縮成第二個 上面都蓋滿了這個太陽能光電板你想三百米 三百米一定要有陽光啊文革也要有陽光啊所以就起不來那業者也試著說把那個蝦子丟進去養看看也死掉了 沒陽光啦好 那第三個問題你看看那個邊坡啊 就那個土堤 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
118.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
145.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
保證你看那個土堤你是農業部長你一定知道這個土啊一定是要用這個黏土嘛各個業者都去用那個砂紙的這個土電線還要通離境啊土堤怎麼會有人是傾斜的那就讓他們沖刷整個都往池塘裡面去了保證所以漁民就沒辦法本來要好好的漁溫本來要漁電共生嘛結果漁死了沒有漁電也沒有來所以漁民輸了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
147.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
159.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
政府也輸了 業者也輸 山蘇我們現在有機會來補救啦我希望這個島 你去看叫你去 你這個專家去 你也沒辦法養嘛 對不對對不對現在應該已經改善了嘛已經改善了 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
161.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
180.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我上禮拜還去問啊怎麼改善它有一部分如果是這個積裝在外面這個目前是可以的如果有好幾個個案都是積裝在裡面的我跟委員報告魚電共生基本上光電的覆蓋率是40%第二件事情就是魚電共生之下的養殖的魚種根據我們水市所 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
181.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
202.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他有針對不同的魚種包括蝦子包括吳郭魚大概有十種的魚種是可以適合養不是說任何的魚種一定要百分之百的陽光因為它是覆蓋率是百分之四十的第三個部分是現在最重要的一個問題就是光電業者跟成豬業者跟地主之間應該有一個更好的一個互動 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
203.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
226.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那農業部現在在積極的去推動就是由專業的養殖的青農來在光電的規劃的一開始就進去去協助做最適當的光電的設置規劃以前不是 以前是光電業者自己隨便蓋然後他不會養 他就養其他的專業養殖者那個都是應付的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
226.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
242.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那個保定你要繼續努力啦博博要紙上談兵我今天跟你談的是很具體我們非常努力去做這個不是保定保定我今天跟你講這個案子是這個案子目前在你的農業部在種材它已經被嘉義縣政府因為沒辦法養嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
244.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
261.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以他已經被農業 被嘉義縣政府已經取消了他這個容許那個許可耶一直整個都停擺啊我先講一下這個案子現在就是處理那一區的保溫對啊 現在就是這個案子嘛 這個案子大可憐 你知道嗎現在業者台米是跟這個漁民啊 求償多少錢 你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
270.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
298.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
一億三千四百五十萬耶這都沒有幾次人嘛 他們一千萬要求償一億三千四百五十萬這有沒有很嚴重他說沒辦法睡覺第二個對業者來講台女的說啊我當初政府你要有做這個一定工資嘛 對不對所以我才投入這麼多錢啊所以現在變成山蘇啊我記得要求很明確第一個這個案子很嚴重這個媒體報的好多次了上禮拜還在報嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
299.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
317.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我請部長你們要完全掌握我下去考察的時候你們的市長是有去的啊這個案子第一個你們現在在種材莊第一個他已經是一個荒廢狀態現在打官司跟討論的過程我拜託你一件事情你們農業部不能騎公車看賣相談啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
320.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
335.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你們要照顧農民嘛好不好盡快進行這個普破王來著急你只要把這個看要怎麼去改善對不對讓魚可以繼續養我剛才說了這四個大吹屍都是有辦法可以改善的改善完不要再求償 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
337.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
361.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我跟委員報告這個案場現在我所知道的訊息是已經改善完整已經在放養泰國蝦了那至於說台泥跟那個那個成豬的農民之間的關係那這個東西我想我們會站在客觀的立場去因為農民因為這是個案不是全案個案的部分他跟台泥之間的要求然後台泥去求賞我相信會牽涉到一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
362.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
378.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
私人的事情啦那我想我們會去了解然後如果說是針對農民是有理的部分我想我們一定會站在協助的角度要去照顧我們基層這些農民啦這個不是只有這個案子這個案例已經撤回訴訟了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
379.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
406.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
有撤回訴訟已經撤回訴訟那很好那你們要更進一步要協調他們最理想的就是可以讓他重新有魚嘛沒有現在已經改了要改好你們都去關心他們那事實上我實地界考察也不是只有這個案子碰到問題旁邊那個插滿集中的有幾個漁民都在陳情現在請那個部長跟那個農業部好不好你們去第一個去關心他們他們碰到問題幫他們解決第二個我知道你們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
408.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
426.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
定型這個企業啦其實一開始只要出現這個問題他就那個企業本身定的那個內容啊移民都看不懂嘛 對不對所以你後來你有把定型化這個企業對 三方定型化企業你們要下去一不小心關心你們把這個企業齁跟他們輔導一下就是說你一定要去努力要照顧好自己的潛力好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
428.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
449.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我想我非常重要就是過往的那個光電的一些比較混亂的地方那我們在內部已經重新調整我們會以更積極的服務的態度去協助而不是說只提供土地的變更或者土地的容許啦那其他的是由光電業者跟農民自己來啦我想我們會用更積極的輔導作為去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
451.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
473.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們積極一點 共同去關心啦要不然幫他們解決問題 特別我講的定型化企業那個好好做好不好另外我問一下 剛才其實有其他立委問到了就是婚齡 管政部所在講他說剛講的是餘電共生嘛 現在是農地 農電共生這個問題好像一個婚齡嘛 超過五千名的這個農民面臨他的這個農保可能要退保 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
474.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
489.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
可能要退保我自己也跟這個問題 台南也有他們是響應國家的政策啊要推動光電那這個要怎麼幫這些人民我跟委員報告我覺得有一些媒體下錯標了而且是惡意的下標就是針對老農 針對洋套殺 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
492.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
516.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
年紀超過65歲的他農保可以不需要持有土地所以這個部分是完全百分之百沒問題超過65歲以上的老農沒有那個0.1公頃對沒有這個已經解開了所以65以上解決那65以下呢所以沒有老農養套上這些問題我必須要澄清所以65歲以下呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
518.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
529.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
65歲以下的話我們今天業務有提出來一個調整作為你如果配合國家的能源政策你提供這些土地出租以後那我們會鬆綁讓他繼續維持有農保的資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
533.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
550.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以董事長你為什麼要下令各個縣市在前面去做這個清查我跟議員報告龍寶的清查是一直在做的而不是特別清查然後這次會發文是因為審計部在做後台勾擊的時候他覺得有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
551.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
578.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
一律要釐清不是說那些人就全部違規他說一律要釐清然後要我們盡速的去釐清所以我們在做這樣的一個處理那另外一個就是我想有委員要求我們說我們都放任光電的農民都還可以繼續有農保也要求我們去清查所以我們才同步去清查的這個是有史以來歷年來最大規模的農保資格清查要讓我們農民可以安心好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
579.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
601.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以部長你剛講65歲以上的放心然後以下的怎麼讓他們可以放心這個要進一步清清楚楚的說明對我們已經非常清楚而且我們後續會盡快的修改相關的辦法然後最近我想我們也會發文先請縣市政府暫停暫停光電的部分光電的部分我們有一些調整暫行清查這個很重要你說會先 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
602.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
612.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
發文給各個縣市政府光電的農地這部分我想我們先暫時因為我們要修改他們的辦法部長我最後做三點這個結論第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
614.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
634.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
對於過往有實際務農這個狀況可是他不管是在餘電共生或者是農電共生你要審定標準如果沒有達到的盡量往放寬的方向去走好不好保住他們這個農保的這個資格若是說這對他來講很重要重寬重寬啊第二件給你重重的第二件定型化這個企業啦你針對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
636.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
651.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我的了解是這個漁電共生已經有幾個版本一直在修定型化企業農地農電共生好像還沒有對不對我們沒有開沒有開那你要跟經濟部討論一下可以比照漁電共生趕快嗎沒有我農地不開 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
652.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
667.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
農地不開光電他們有些農地你不是已經那是變更農地變更對農地變更那是變更土地變更以後就做的對我現在你說變更完了現在就是如果有農地或者是農民他做了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
668.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
694.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
他要去跟業者要合作做我們的國家政策我們不同意農地我們現在不同意農地那你現在有某些農地我們家是漁店然後那個溫室的溫室栽培的屋頂可以像你剛才說你們這些人當地的問題這些農民你應該是要怎麼去幫他你就應該給他一個沒有就是漁店的部分是沒問題的然後現在在屋頂型的也沒問題這個我們都可以來處理但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
695.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
724.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那個陸地的光電設施我們目前並沒有開沒有開放嘛我是說如果有些農民碰到這個問題你要去幫他們解決啦好不好要多一點輔導多一點多一點協助好最後一個針對這個農民跟養殖這個漁民啊如果配合政府的農電共生跟漁電共生政策可是後來這個土地發生了像剛剛在講的污染啦埋了什麼廢棄物啦環境改變或者是什麼電廠設計跟施工你導致他根本就沒辦法再種農或者務農或者是養殖的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
725.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
741.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
搞不好後來導致他連那個農民的身份都被取消嘛或者一定時間裡面都沒辦法從事欸你還說這個很可憐喔結果有時候還被業者回過頭來要去求償他我請 也算拜託啦也要求農業部這我硬要做的齁我原本說過往就是齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
742.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
759.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
地主租了以後他根本不去看現場光電就被亂蓋了現在我們希望說在蓋的規劃的時候我們這些養殖的青龍就要一起去設計然後去看他的施工會不會有影響他的汙染影響後續的養殖這個部分我們會做 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
760.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
785.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
你不用清農而已啦,包括老農、中農都一樣啦,所以農民都要,尤其是年紀越大了,可能他那個法律上的那個錢,他比較沒有這個經驗嘛,所以我一方面是要求,一方面是拜託農業部,一定拜託一下,一定要做這個事情,就是要多幫幫他們啦,所以包括他們可能有時候被人家求償、被餓死,你們要站在農民的這個角度,跟他們立場,多保護他們,多照顧,包括,對,保證,在剛才的案件一樣, |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
787.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
801.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
去幫他們協商好不好都照顧我們的農民你現在不是只有一邊化解那個酋長這個問題然後盡量如果說他們受到不利的侵害有時候錯在業者對不對業者比較強大嘛都幫幫我們這個漁民跟農民自己到該有的權利好不好這三點請具體的落實好不好好 謝謝我們張祺凱偉 |