| IVOD_ID |
159612 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159612 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-26T10:13:13+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-26T10:27:13+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8cb7ec0b2cd1ea34cd9ec77852b0365eae9eb35b51f79668de8218cd9f46c9a1d286ba3e6171f3d45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
沈發惠 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:13:13 - 10:27:13 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查
（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員羅智強等17人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百零五條之二條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員莊瑞雄等18人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百零五條之二、第二百零五條之三及第二百零五條之四條文修正草案」案。
（四）委員林楚茵等17人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百零五條之二條文修正草案」案。
【僅進行詢答】） |
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好 主席我們請司法院副秘書長麻煩副秘書長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
12.356 |
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副議長好,有關於今天的議程,有關刑事訴訟法的部分修正條文我想這些部分,事實上大家有滿高度的共識,我相信沒有什麼爭議今天利用這個機會,我就來跟我們司法院來探討幾個我個人比較關心的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
34.522 |
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52.058 |
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首先我們在2017年8月的四改國事會議裡面,我們那時候有關於完善行事正路的保管制度在2017年8月,四改國事會議就做成這樣子的決議2017年到現在,2025,經過這麼多年 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
57.489 |
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82.043 |
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我想了解說我們有關於這個完善刑事證物的保管制度我們到底做了什麼做了什麼樣的制度上面的變革不要講2017年我們從2020年我們監察院監察院他就有在109年度提出這個通案性的案件調查報告也同樣提及有關我們目前刑事案件的這些賬物證物的 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
84.524 |
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105.094 |
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的這些檔卷的保管的這個調查研究報告這裡面這個就各機關就這些證物扣押物的這些保管處所他的規定他的列管字號這些相關的這個對於這樣子目前這些證物 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
106.397 |
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126.599 |
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照顧他的這些運送包括他的運送包括他的勾基的成本等等是不是能夠這個這個減少這樣證物滅失他掉包的風險還有有助於確保證物的統一性這些部分我們目前我們就從這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
129.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
154.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
2020年監察院調查報告到現在也是四年多的時間這四年多的時間我們通盤監牢的情形是不是請副名長報告一下好 謝謝委員垂詢確實委員問的這問題是一個很重要的問題因為在偵查中就是這些髒證物它是屬於檢察機關他們所保管那到了起訴之後依規定是要送到院方來 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
154.927 |
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176.397 |
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那所以就是相關的這些規定法院端也都有完善相關的那些制度什麼樣的完善制度說來參考看看我們分別就是它是在幾個法律底下規定的一個是台灣高等法院及所屬各法院的章政務的管理要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
177.617 |
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202.966 |
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那還有一個是這一個第三人保管那個扣押物的那個管理要點還有一個是那個法院處理那個扣押物的那個陰形注意事項這裡頭呢也都有就是把這些那個相關的就是說他怎麼去那個列冊啊那重要的這些那個證物他又有一些那個特別的一些那個比較嚴格的一些程序這個包括司法國會一直到這個監察院的報告那時候都認為應該要要這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
207.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
226.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
建立一個國家級的專業的單一的政務保管機關這樣子的方向我們有沒有在研擬這樣的方向國家級的專業的單一的政務保管機關而不是像現在用這個管理要點下去下去這個簡單的由這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
231.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
255.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
法官或書記官來保管證物委員好 那有關這個部分我們有跟這個正在跟行政院這邊在修刑事訴訟法的140條這個部分就是有關證物 章證物保管的相關問題那我們有也有參加研議這個所研修經濟證證物監管制度的有12次我們開到第12次了 上個禮拜3月24號才剛開過這個過程應該你們有你們可能開過很多次會那我只問 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
276.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個其他你們可能開過很多智慧希望能夠完善這個制度但是我再問一個問題就是說有關於各界建議認為應該應該要建立國家級專業單一的政務保險機關我們有沒有這樣的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
277.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
302.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
沒有到目前為止沒有目前在研議的過程中還沒有出現在沒有是只讓我們會再把委員意見我現在講的這些都還是傳統的證物跟賬物我們在這個去年的7月16號我們通過通過這個這個有關於強特殊強制處分的相關規定也就是所謂科技偵查的這些現在科技新型態的這些證據證物這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
307.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
334.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他的未來他有可能有可能這個被篡改被銷毀在過程中這個影響他這個證據的統一性的可能性更大我們連傳統的證物的目前的這些相關的這些保管制度我們都還沒有完善的建立目前的這些有關科技偵查特殊強制手段他所得的這些資料我們的相關保管我們現在有什麼樣的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
337.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
345.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
向委員報告因為就是施行這個特殊的強制處分是由偵查機關或者是偵查輔助機關所發動的所以說他取得這些資料是屬於偵查資料偵查之後你進入法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
358.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
376.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
起訴之後他就這些證物一樣跟卷宗一併就交給你們法院啊是 是不是是交給法院之後我在講的是進入審判程序之後由法院來保管這些相關的科技偵查的資料目前有建立什麼樣的制度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
379.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
401.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
跟委員報告一下關於數位證據的部分我們透過司法聯盟鏈這個部分讓大家上網再用一個透過所謂的加密這種方式或是賀許值的這種部分來確認它的同一性這部分這個司法聯盟鏈已經跟法務部我們去年修法的這個刑事訴訟法第153條第153之10條裡面的這個第5項有授權 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
408.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
432.02 |
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授權這個這個依本章實施調查方式所得資料的程序管理及銷毀銷毀陳報通知等等這些的相關辦法由司法院會同行政院定制由這個第五項之後授權之後我們這個這個司法院訂定的刑事訴訟法特殊強制處分執行辦法對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
433.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
458.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
是不是這個是我講的你們所謂的法律依據在這裡但是你們法律依據裡面的你們這個強制處分執行辦法裡面的特殊強制處分執行辦法裡面的這個第13條第13條第4項裡面有提到前項科技設備所屬公司部門或其他機關應訂定有關設備使用人員之資格限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
459.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
482.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
領用器材之內容工作日誌清澈使用期間相關規定這些東西這些相關的機制目前建立了沒有目前我們有請他們做相關的所以就是還沒有吧我們的執行辦法已經發下去那各單位也配合在執行辦法發案我在這講執行辦法裡面第13條第4項所規定的這些相關規定你們做了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
486.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
512.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這些各機關應該 其他機關應該訂定關於設備使用人員資格限制包括這個領用的器材內容工作日誌 還有你這個這個使用期間等相關規定這些規定 規定了沒有這個是由各執行機關規定那你們有沒有看上次在刑事警察局那邊他們說有關相關的規定他們都已經建置完畢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
513.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
527.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
是刑事警察局的部分啦其他的單位部分我們會繼續再追蹤其他最重要的是我現在要講的就是說我們現在目前的這個刑事證物的保管制度從傳統的這些證據保管一直到 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
528.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
541.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
現在這些特殊強制處分的這些科技的這些證物這些目前我們整個保管的制度事實上是大有問題啦那事實上也很多學這各方都認為說有關這些相關的證物應該要建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
545.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
571.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
一個單一的國家專業的國家的證據的這個保存的機關事實上從過去的許多案例我們看到太多太多的案例司法案例他就是因為這個整個證據證據的過程他的滅屍那造成這個判決上面的爭議這個從過去到現在一直是這樣所以司改國是會司改國是會不是吃飽沒事幹 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
574.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
579.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
來對我們的這個目前的這些證據相關的保管的這些措施提出建言 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
580.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
606.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那我希望這個部分齁還是要把它法治化啦要把這個我們的刑事證物的這些保管制度齁還是應該要把它法治化啦齁那我希望說司法院是不是能夠在三個月裡面來邀集相關的機關齁包括這個民間團體來針對我國證物保存跟這個監管制度齁我們延長整個目前法治的檢討的會議好不好司法院能不能這樣做三個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
607.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
620.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們會依委員的指示辦理那剛才我們前面委員的質詢裡面也提到有關於這個國安目前的這些國安案件的相關的這些我知道啦 目前我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
621.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
645.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
有我們的法院有這個九個地方法院有設置專庭國安專庭那有19個19所法院有設立這個專股還有9個專庭19個專股那我們相關的這些這些我調你們的資料目前這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
646.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
668.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這些專庭專股的這些法官他們也必須也過去我們也從109年度開始我們就已經辦理相關的這些國家安全的研習會每年好像每年109 110每一年都有辦理國家安全的研習會那我看到這個我們這個表上面我們目前的參與人數從109年20人 110年15人111年45人參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
676.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
695.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
112年12人參與整個加起來總計從109年到114年總計有167個人參與這167個人參與是不是有沒有重複的參與就是說我每一年都報名或者是說我可能報名了兩次或三次還是說我們現在目前看到167人次 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
698.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
725.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我看到的是人次 就每一年辦理下來的人次那究竟這個參與的狀況目前有曾經參與過我們國家安全研習會的人數有沒有統計有沒有重複這個情形我們現在這個統計數上面是沒有辦法這個看不出來我就是因為看不出來我才問你那這個我們如果委員需要的話我們會進一步再去抓這個資料那這裡面也看到包括111年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
727.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
739.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
從突然從前一年度15人增加到45人那114就是今年度也突然從去年44人增加到將近一倍的79人那這是有沒有什麼特別的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
741.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
767.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
了解有什麼特別的因素這個是因為司法院深深體會到說這個國安的那個案件法官一定需要那個專業所以說我們也就是大力的去那個宣達那在今年呢就是說我們除了今年本來是預定只有三月這個梯次可是我們後來又增加了一個設計了一個完全不同的課程在六月又多增加了一個班不好意思我時間已經超過一段時間了那我最後我是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
768.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
789.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
有關我們每一年度辦理這個研習法官最後我們都有一個學員的意見調查意見的調查統計都有這裡面大家反映出來有關學員的意見調查他們都反映出在實際審理國安案件的時候有關於目前的實地教學參訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
791.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
795.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
他們認為有高度的參考價值有關實地的教學參訪這個部分我們是不是能夠增加每年度我們辦理的實地教學參訪的次數 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
807.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
836.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
因為根據學員的回饋認為說這些實地教學參訪是對他們的這個判決是非常有幫助的那我們是不是增加能夠有考慮來增加這個實地教學參訪的次數那來我們也同時我也希望說我們這個辦理之後我們能夠評估每一次這個實地教學的這些學習成果好不好是我希望說這個部分我希望我們這個司法院來考慮不好意思再用大家的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
837.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
839.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
好 謝謝沈委員 那下一位我們請莊瑞雄委員 |