| IVOD_ID |
159555 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159555 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-20-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-24T11:21:09+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-24T11:32:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:38 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01f072357e67ffc0b4d30174e358905ebe2be2b26df085f9e5f5281f5900dffbc7ca98e9358032305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳玉珍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:21:09 - 11:32:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。
二、審查本院委員王鴻薇等26人、委員林德福等20人、委員賴士葆等20人分別擬具「預算法增訂第八十一條之一條文草案」等3案。
【3月24日及26日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席長 請主席長 是我個人一向很尊敬您我也是尊敬您 謝謝我覺得你身為一位獨立自主的女性我內心表達非常敬重但是我昨天 還是昨天 前兩天看到新聞看到說您有一個 您上了一個是節目嗎 還是上了一個宣講的場合 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
35.964 |
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是吧 參加一個大罷免的活動嘛對吧 有吧我不是參加大罷免活動我是在宣講政策是宣講喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
37.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
58.778 |
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我覺得我看著你 我看你一上台就拿著稿開始念吧我不知道你念的那句話是 就應該是人家寫給你的吧照稿讀啊 那我心裡覺得很難過啊就覺得好像是被人家拿一個東西教你念前面那一段啊 前面那一段啊 說什麼你是怎樣是怎樣我覺得我心裡很感慨啦因為我覺得到底你是去宣講呢 還是去亂講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
60.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
84.895 |
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我主要是在講台上文化法修正的一個困境你身為主計長我對我們的行政官員事實上都一向很尊重那我們這些行政官員尤其是政務官應該要保持一定的高度在我來看都當到國家部會首長都是非常高的位置而且是讓人家敬重的那至少你要去宣講政策當然是行政院要求要去宣講政策職責所在那宣講的內容也應該照這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
87.856 |
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107.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
比較 我們來看一下妳說了什麼嘛那妳知道去參加以前 妳知道這是民進黨在做這個全台大辦有一個造勢的場合嗎不是 因為他們說這是我們政策宣講的一個場合所以妳認為這個是很適合出現的嗎主計官隊來講 各地的主辦都很中立的角色啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
108.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
129.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
你覺得你適合參加嗎所以你不知道他是罷免的場合就對了因為他們在那邊講罷免啊有人上去演啊罷免啊重點是宣導政策所以你認為你是去宣導政策不是說去講反罷免這個事你沒有這樣的想法所以你身為主席連這種基本的判斷能力也沒有就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
130.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
157.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
不是沒有 而是認為說我不是這樣子我們來看一下你現場提供的資料好不好我們來看你提供的資料正不正確你宣講有沒有像你看這個你現場提供的三立的報導金省前跟金省後這是你在人民市頭加的政策宣講原來金省前28財化法的這是財化法這個稅率劃分情形之前是28.9直銷三縣市台灣省政府是11嘛中央政府是60.1嘛那金省後 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
158.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
180.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個您提供24.6% 省政委的部分是11% 中央政委的部分是64.4%這個是你做的表沒錯吧 是那這個表裡頭 我想請問你你做這個表的意思是說 經審前跟經審後 因為你看71.1%跟75.4%嘛所以中央只有增加4%的意思是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
181.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
208.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我的意思是說這個部分必須考量原來台灣省政府的業務的部分當初我們中央是有承接雖然收入有承接但是支出同樣有承接是是那這是講收入我先討論收入的部分我知道支出都當然有承接那所以你們這個你做這個表嘛把這個畫起來左邊是71.1右邊是75.4那意思是說中央只增加了4點多的收入是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
210.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
236.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
對中央就是說等於說地方他減少了4點多的一個收入就經省後地方只有減少4點多嘛對所以在你這個表格裡頭省政府是屬於中央嘛對不對因為省政府的業務後來劃歸到在你這個表格因為我們說左邊經省錢啦在你的裡頭省政府也算中央的是是嗎好下一頁來中華民國憲法第108條省政府是中央海地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
239.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
254.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
按照憲法規範你身為中華民國主席長中華民國憲法第108條中央是中央地方業務包括什麼省市省政府縣市政府所以你這個表格是我覺得是意圖在這個誤導民眾啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
257.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我是針對整個一個稅務裁員你用這個表格我知道但是我知道你把那弄很清楚但你把它弄成71.1好像是只有增加4%地方減少那麼少地方好像只減少4%但事實上就是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你這個誇號像精神前中央只增加不到5%然後你把精神前省也算成中央這個是在欺騙百姓因為你是行政官員你當初宣誓的時候是宣誓是按照中華民國憲法宣誓要遵守憲法所以在百姓宣導證的時候你必須要合憲合法你現在馬上到旁邊的幕僚把他給我翻中華民國憲法第108條省算是中央海地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
327.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
因為經省以後他的業務是移到中央來辦的沒錯嘛 那錢也是移過來嘛所以地方的錢是變少嘛地方的錢也變少嘛 沒錯嘛我的意思是說 你要講說因為茶葉法我是主審的 我非常了解你要說地方的中央事情變多 錢變多 事情也變多那現在如果茶葉法要這樣畫那我們也必須要把這個一些事權下放這點我都同意 我也都尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
328.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
347.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以我在這裡一直在講說那內政部提出哪些事權要下放的法律修改啊交通部經濟部各個部會覺得哪些部會有些事情既然前面採劃法分給地方那地方多做一點把事權劃出來啊我請各個部會提出相關的修法這個是各個部會應該提出他們沒做嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
348.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
368.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他們必須這樣做嘛 那你們主計處跟財政部也應該提出你們的版本是你們一直不願意提出版本嘛 我們苦等再等 一等再等從六月份等到九月份 再從九月份等到十二月份 都沒有 我們就只好修法嘛我們不是不願意說等你們有版本吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
386.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那因為可是我是在說當你身為一個政務官下鄉去宣講的時候你要講正確的觀念啊比如你連省是中央還是地方你都搞不清楚嘛你身為一個中華民國的主計長連中華民國憲法的明白規定的中央跟地方的權限都沒有弄清楚嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
387.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
妳說我有沒有說錯啊我現在是在談業務的部分對對對 沒有啦妳要宣講 妳要給百姓正確的觀念嘛但是妳要給百姓正確的觀念嘛是 謝謝不過妳連中華民國憲法都不了解妳還是依照中華民國憲法宣示的主計長啊那我再請教妳所以我請說 您宣講的時候準備材料的時候我寧願喔 站在我的立場以我對您的尊敬我寧願相信妳是被誤導啦我真的是寧願這樣相信啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
414.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
437.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好 那請教現在那個我們以前一直有提到一個什麼就是地方的這個自籌款跟那個中央的這種就在補助的時候一些款項比例就像財力分級的自籌款的比例 對吧有分一級 二級 三級 四級 五級每一級有不同的規定比如說台北市第一級 連江第五級那自籌款比例會不一樣 沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
439.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
440.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對 因為財源改變請問哪個等級是地方要自籌50% |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
445.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
475.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
哪一個等級這個部分目前沒有現在正在研議當中沒有現在沒有嘛對不對沒有嘛齁那為什麼金門縣政府收到這個有部會的這個公文說這個補助款下去地方請地方自籌50%這個依法有據嗎我們整個目前正在檢討當中對你在檢討還沒有下公文嘛對不對還沒有你還在檢討但是有部會喔已經提出這樣的公文給地方政府喔說下去你們的這個自籌款要準備50%喔這個是依法有據的公文嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
476.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
497.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
還是在恐嚇地方的公文啊沒有嘛 還沒有這樣規定出來對不對我們主計總署是沒有下這個公文對 我不是說你主計總署我知道 我相信主計總署會依法辦事雖然你沒有熟讀那個憲法不了解這個也被誤導 好不好我就認為你被誤導我在地方聽到這個齁我們基本原來第三級嘛要負擔三成啦 約三成啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
499.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
521.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
現在有部會要求到第五層有要求到五層請你 確實沒有這件事情對不對確實也沒有這個要求對不對目前是我們沒有做這樣的要求你們自己沒有 你有沒有要求其他部會這樣做沒有沒有嘛 如果真的沒有要對外澄清不然請你要詢問給各個部會啊他們怎麼可以不依法行政啊現在中央單位都可以亂套喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
523.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
540.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
想要發文說五成就五成,想要給地方說你七成就七成,可以這樣子嗎?補助都是要依法行政啊院長在院會裡面有說明說補助款的部分先行凍結50%我說的是自籌款的部分嘛所有東西要依法行政嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
543.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
563.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我說的不是現在這個 我說的是比如說你有個計畫上來嘛 對不對你本來是7比3嘛 你現在竟然要求人家50嘛這是不對的嘛 因為你們還沒有修 你們不能這樣做吧你們是不是要依法行政我們沒有這樣子修我不是說你啦 你沒有問題 我不是說主計是你們既然沒有修 其他各部會 你應該發文給各個部會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
566.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
590.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
因為你們每個部會都有主計人員啊如果有的部會沒這樣做這樣他是不是違法不是因為現在是院長是說先凍結我知道你說的是那個那是因為114年度被刪減的情形要做調停我知道你說的是什麼我說但是我們財化法還沒有實施喔對財化法還沒有實施喔這是另外一件事對不對這兩件事嘛所以我現在說的是自籌款的部分嘛我是可以請你跟各個部會通令啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
592.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
605.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
才化如果以後你要改成說要比例可能要調整你們會考慮那當然你們後面應該依法做嘛現在還沒有以前你們部應該這樣做是不是要通令你要請你的主計人員在各個部會的啊問他各個部會有沒有做這樣違法的事情這是違法欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
607.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
631.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
難道可以一個部長我隨便舉例隨便隨便某某部長就是說我比較喜歡某個縣市我就要求他這個只要自籌20%我最討厭這個縣市他就要加到70%不可以嘛政府有法令對不對所以你是不是要通令我要求啦通令請各個單位要按照現在的法令行政嘛現在有財力分級嘛對吧是不是可以這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
633.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
640.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個部分因為是行政院規範的不是我所以這個部分我們也可以向行政院來說明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
643.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
666.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
其他部會違法你們裡面主計的人不用追究嗎那我要求一件事就好了好不好你請幫我了解給我資料各個部會因為你們都有主計的人有哪些部會做了這樣的事情違法要求地方給比較多超過原來他財力分級的部分一個月給我各個部會的資料你聽得懂我在說什麼嗎你去查你去查給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
667.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
680.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
妳知道我意思嗎因為比如說金門本來是三級啊妳查金門的就好了本來是三級七比三結果妳去問看有沒有哪個部位 妳幫我問有哪個部位給這樣子一個月給我一個月給妳報告給我們蔡委員好 謝謝陳委員的諮詢下一位請黃珊珊委員諮詢 請妳等一下找我一下 |