| IVOD_ID |
159430 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159430 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-20T09:51:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-20T10:04:33+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/51071748fba5feb08edce8b0a857f61e56c3f89dc79e7a25525a0be0b44ec4a37c0d8a20c67ed6ae5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:51:46 - 10:04:33 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月19日及20日二天一次會】） |
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請博定國部長委員長博定 剛才有人在問你說逗台的事情其實你應該沒有見情啦沒有嘛 對不對我這個 在這個工作上面 我很努力對啦 很努力 沒有見情啦事實上比做多久更重要的就是要留下美名 不要留下罵名 |
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我現在看你民調還算在前面啦還算在前面那最重要的要讓人民是幫你鼓掌的不要背後你去做民調的時候很多人罵你這個才比做多久更重要那最近有一個事情就會關係到你會留下美名還是罵名其實有兩個很重要的嘛你的任內電價會漲幾次這個就是你的歷史定位喔每次民調漲一次電價你可能民調就掉一些了 |
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然後第二個你到底有沒有幫民眾解決用電的這個穩定然後電價不要一直是往上漲的這兩個都非常非常重要的包括你有沒有從根本的問題因為Key up來啊台電本來是個金雞模那它為什麼變成敗家子你找到那個病因啊對不對我們要從那個治本去把它解決你如果這個問題解決了那連你要建型你要走人民都會挽留你啊你如果走你如果一些事情都處理不好 |
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那人民就希望你走嘛 是不是所以柏定我先來討論一個問題來你的任內啊 你覺得你的任內 電價會漲幾次肯定會漲幾次對不對最近4月份會再漲一次嗎 郭志輝的任內 |
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139.3 |
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馬上要漲第二次的電價嗎這會是你的歷史定位是人民對郭志輝的評價嗎報告委員就像那一天院長在大會大院上面講的我不是水電部長我是經濟部長我是為中華民國的經濟來打拚的 |
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154.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
所以福國利民才是我的目標當然委員所關心的水電的部分這個是非常重要的跟民生絕對有相關所以您的指教我一定會謹記在心那至於處理台電的這個電價的問題我再三的跟您報告電價的問題不是由經濟部長來決定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
165.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
189.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
電價是由電價審議委員來決定的電價審議委員包含所有的專家、學者以及用電戶部長抱歉因為時間有限已經用掉一半時間了因為我在質詢我抱歉我必須要打斷非常抱歉我們讓人民知道經濟部跟政府有很重要的責任讓我們的電力不只要穩定電價也不能一直漲來我給你看一個圖來你看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
191.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
193.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
看一下這是2006年到2004年的電價的調整馬英九任內漲了4次 降了3次蔡英文漲了4次 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
203.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
223.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個就是大家對馬英九跟蔡英文的評價一樣嘛我就是要問你嘛你現在任內你要盡量不要讓他一直長你看我們為民進黨執政以後最近這三年像沖天炮一樣三年已經沖了四次了你如果最近又漲了一次就三年漲了五次喔等一下大家都會記得郭志輝的任內 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
224.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
249.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
已經漲了兩次了 好不好所以你盡量要去踩煞車沒有 這是第一第二個更重要的大家對你更深的一個期待我也不是說隨便叫你說電價不要漲啊你從七月來你應該去找那個病因在什麼地方嘛你看 為什麼馬英九時代電價上去後來就掉下來民進黨政府為什麼一直往上衝 為什麼民進黨政府做了兩件事情是馬英九沒有做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
250.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
273.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
停掉核電對不對核電核一核二核三一年大概多花了一千億啊第二個買了綠電嘛這個都是民進黨以前沒有的你光是最近你買了那麼多的綠電一年300億度你現在只賣10%出去嘛對不對你如果儘快你現在賣RE30你儘快把它賣出去你一年五六百億的錢就進來了啊所以在講就是說電價可以不用漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
275.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
302.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你去解決核電的問題你去解決馬上可以做的馬上可以做的剛講的I-30趕快去賣你把你買的高價買的核電把它賣出去7月可以買到綠電對不對這是7月也有嘛對不對台電也不要虧損嘛人民也不要再不要再被你漲電價所以4月1號有太多方法可以做好不好好好想一下好不好那另外我提我前幾天有特別提醒你你是漲電價我看 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
305.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
318.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
有一個不用漲的方式就是豐電的廠商跟你台電都有簽契約嘛對不對雲能豐廠2分2米的400億啊你這400億只要一把回來了你幹嘛去漲電價你現在有去把這個錢出回來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
324.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
346.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
報告委員我們所做所為都是依法依規在進行那麼在法律的框架之下我們該做的事情都會去做那所以委員所指導的跟指教的部分我們會來參考那如果說我們有做不好的地方或者是沒有做到的地方這個我們會努力去改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
348.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
367.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以這個很具體嘛就是允能這個就是失敗的地方嘛對不對這個是依法要的啊你在允能該給你這400億的同時還有你漲電價的這個同時當然是先處理這400億進來啊那你說依法依合約來做為什麼到現在400億沒有要回來嗎能不能在最近電價審理委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
369.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
392.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好 開會之前把這400億要回來要回來你就可以電交審理委員講啊我現在有錢啊我們不要 我們不要去圖利廠商我們會照顧人民這一部分我是不請那個南原局長跟你報告一下好不好等一下啦 你私底下再給我那個啦我現在要求 你私底下 我因為我問題沒有問完時間已經到了 抱歉 局長那個因為沒有那個400億啦那個400億是委員算的 那沒有那個400億這個從去年開始 從 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
396.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
420.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
不是每一條都是想在問的時候你們都說你們盡力要去把這400億要回來這企業不是清清楚楚嗎因為它有中間有一些遇到COVID有一些不可抗力的因素是可以扣除所以OK來所以第一個不是沒有是有然後你說是因為碰到疫情對不對可是它確實造成我們第一個造成我們要用綠電延誤了第二個是依照企業就是應該可以罰我現在問你哪一個輕哪一個重我想對於這個題聽我講哪一個輕哪一個重在企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
424.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
426.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
在風電商跟人民之間哪一個重 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
427.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
454.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你現在這400億不要回來 結果你去仗人民的這個底下你現在只要再把400億依法去契約沒有400億這個命題沒有400億這個命題你說沒有是因為你說你把它認定放寬變成說碰到疫情嘛對不對我們可以跟你再報告這個部分齁但是沒有400億這個命題所以要我去要這個400億真的就是我沒有辦法這個這個不憑空嘛你們現在的解釋是說因為碰到疫情嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
455.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
470.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你等於是放寬了嘛HIGH CHASE是延誤了嘛所以蔡委所理的保證金要扣抵這個問題嘛我們絕對是依法我們決定是絕對依法依規來進行的我們一定是依照法律的規定在進行工作如果委員認為說我們這裡面有不法的行為我歡迎提告 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
482.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
487.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
一方面是提告嘛,一方面你們有責任我們建議,也許我們的做法,您認為說不對,那我們接受這個改善但是如果不是事實的,歡迎提告普天,我經常在經濟二輪會問這件事,已經問兩次了第一,總是想問一件事,要回去查證書,然後會盡量這個是虛無的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
508.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
528.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個是委員推估的推估的金額我們認為這樣不是推估的金額 不是 署長合約上面是這樣寫嘛 對不對現在是你們幫他解套嘛沒有沒有 委員如果認為在這個情況之下我們歡迎提告一方面是提告 一方面是你們不要只有幫廠商解套的同時我們不會幫廠商來做這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
533.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
561.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
解釋一方面我們走法律的途徑一方面就是你要跟民眾非常清楚交代是有這個企業的只是你幫他用疫情這個解套人家接不接受這個就是我剛講的歷史定位跟人民什麼看你的問題人民覺得你該不該幫他解套特別他影響到我們漲電價報告委員我們希望就事實討論衍生性的這個假設啊我認為還是要透過科學的方式來討論因為所有的事實的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
562.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
577.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個反正所有的事實的進行一定是有科學的根據才能夠提出來論述用假設性或者推論的我認為這樣的話可能就失去我們理系討論的這樣的一個範圍什麼叫事實 什麼叫科學有沒有這份 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
579.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
596.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個合約 有嘛有沒有罰款這個事情 有嘛現在問題出這個有 這個就是事實 這個就是科學現在問題出在你們幫他解套啊我們是依合約來討論這樣那你幫他解套我問你 你要幫他解套的同時上不上的選委的同時你幫他解套完之後四百億不見了你又來佔我們的電價 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
597.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
621.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
不是這樣子這個事情我們要清楚這是一條路第二個我們有共識嘛對不對保定那第二個我們有共識R1300要綠電趕快賣對不對讓企業可以買到電可以贏然後呢台電台電可以賺到錢根本就不用漲電價我們生命的贏不用好不好我們來研究啦我們一定是在法律的框架之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
622.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
639.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們來進行我們的業務啦超過法律的允許的範圍我們是沒有辦法做的這一點請我這個委員可以原諒我們就用事實跟科學來做今天這個討論所以馬上讓人民電價對整個物價衝擊是太大的那我們提出三個解方 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
640.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
668.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
至少有兩個你是有共識的嘛第一個綠電趕快賣出去創造企業買到電台電有賺到錢人民不用漲電價是個三年這是第一條路第二個重啟核電最近國際上都已經重啟了AIT的處長這幾天已經說了他說連美國日本都在用核電他們還可以幫我們好不好斯德晚前任的這個AIT的處長也講了好好去思考一下包括烏俄戰爭的時候德國都讓他的這個三座 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
670.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
696.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
三座這個核電廠都可以研議那最近美國跟日本都是只要是安全的一到三年都可以重啟我想研議的問題我們是要尊重這個大院的這個規定那大院在之前有規定我們一定要下載我們在法的框架下去進行這個核電下載當然你要說研議啊恢復我想這個只要大院通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
697.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
726.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們就是尊重大院的這個規定昨天委員會已經開了第一個公聽會啦這個我們會盡快修法方面我們會我相信這個不是只有在野黨的這個責任啦執政黨更有這個義務跟這個責任要去共同來推動包括部長這對你來講能源的穩定跟電價不要太高這都是你的事好所以綠電核電趕快要去處理那你剛剛講有爭議性的這一塊我們讓全民來公平到底你們用這個疫情這個去幫他解套到底合不合適我們會急著追下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
727.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
745.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我們不會為單一廠商去解套我也要求我的同仁必須要在法的框架之內進行工作不能夠為單一廠商去解套目前看到的事實就是這樣啊我們在法的框架之內我們去努力但是我們絕不為這個法以外的事情去做解套 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
756.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
762.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
部長一方面是法啦一方面就是現在人民看到的事你去幫這家廠商四百億沒進來你們已經重複四百億是民推運的謝謝大家好我們現在 |