| IVOD_ID |
159328 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159328 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-19T09:42:56+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-19T09:58:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:36 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8d8da86eec6b25b8610bb90f2a999549cea595bacfac0e4703218e34103c684fefeab28909cd25ec5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:42:56 - 09:58:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月19日及20日二天一次會】） |
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請下座位 好 劉主委委員長國發會啊 非常的重要 它是我們國家發展的總舵手領頭羊我剛剛看你的報告有特別提到用水跟用電上這段時間民眾最關心的就是不是雙台效應 現在是不是有三個颱風要來了 |
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52.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
79.444 |
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水要漲了電要漲了台鐵也要漲了所以連央行都出來示警了央行說啊如果這三個全部都漲的話我們的CPI啊會衝破百分之二的這個警界線當初定這個百分之二就是有可能通膨嘛 對不對那這個對我們的民生跟產業衝擊會非常非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
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89.182 |
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請問國發會 諸委你們有做什麼樣的因應例如說可以讓這個電價不要漲或者是怎麼樣對人民的這個衝擊是小一點的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
89.873 |
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因為這個電價漲不漲或者是票價漲不漲不在國安會的權責那我們現在就是透過我們的物價督導匯報的我們是這個單位的幕僚我們會大概會對幾個重要的物資譬如說黃曉玉這個的那個關稅啦或者是一些消費稅上面然後能源的那個相關的稅賦上面我們會進行抵檢然後做一些措施來 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
116.781 |
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138.51 |
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所以國發會是我們整個經濟發展經濟大經濟會的一個領頭羊你是經濟經濟會跟原卡會合在一起的所以是整個國家發展水跟電對你來講當然很重要不過當初我的了解包括總統找你來一開始除了你的專業之外不是很重要就是要解決讓電可以穩定嗎是不是 |
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142.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
166.403 |
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現在電價你至少現在做一件事情嘛讓電是穩定的讓電價不要一直漲我覺得這是國發會非常非常重要的任務我們也有反映民間的一些看法給到經濟部那經濟部我想他們在做任何事情都會考慮到這個產業的看法那的確有一些產業有跟我們反映我們都有反映過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
166.983 |
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194.465 |
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所以一方面是人在公民好修行苦民所苦民眾在擔心整個物價的一個高漲電價帶動整個物價的這個高漲這對人民生活衝擊是很大的那對整個產業的發展也是很重要的所以我今天給你看一個解決的方案大家看一下這是2006年開始一直到2024年整個平均電價的一個走勢圖波動 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
196.104 |
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214.479 |
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你會發現一個非常重要的我們在裡面再找答案馬英九在2008年上任執政了8年2016年交給蔡英文他接的時候啊一度墊我們用了一度墊2塊6左右經過8年啦還是2塊6你會發現馬英九的這8年 |
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221.296 |
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246.97 |
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電價漲了四次可是大家很多人都忘記了它後面這兩年降了三次現在讓我們擔心的這也是國泡會馬上要去處理的蔡英文的八年漲了四次賴清德總統去年的十月份已經漲了一次了對不對現在十月一號 宜蘭姐又漲一次像充電砲耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
248.325 |
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260.402 |
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你會發現馬英九是上去之後4次完以後降了3次等於只有上一次對不對電價維持在一度是2塊6結果你從蔡英文的8年一直大帶輕的這樣一直衝上去2塊6現在已經到達3塊4、3塊5了 |
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264.755 |
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285.991 |
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第一個人民負擔很重對不對第二個可能更嚴重啊三個颱風要來特別是電價對我們人民對物價衝擊很大啊國發會有責任去弄清楚為什麼馬英九當初國際的這個油價上漲的時候他上來為什麼他後來有辦法連山降為什麼民進黨沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
289.127 |
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313.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
問題是不是在兩個指揮你這問題在哪裡為什麼馬英九時代可以下來為什麼民進黨這八年包括現在賴清德總統一直往上衝沒辦法降還在漲為什麼委員您是財經專家應該記得油價當年是從30幾塊我想馬英九那個時候衝到了100多塊大概到120幾那時候還謠言會到150所以那個時候他成本大幅的上漲就往上走後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
314.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
340.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
整個油價又大幅的往下到60塊左右那當然它有漲的空間跟跌的空間那後面這幾年其實都是想要穩定所以就一直撐著撐到那時候是石油對不對主委你也是專家那這次也因為戰爭的關係石油增加當初馬英九碰到是石油上漲那現在蔡英文總統民進黨政府那時候碰到是烏克蘭戰爭天然氣嘛對不對天然氣在烏克戰爭的第二年就前年就掉下來了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
341.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
360.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你現在去看國際的燃料的價格,全部都是往下走的所以就出了兩個問題一個是核電,一個是綠電的問題這兩個是以前馬英九沒有的民進黨政府現在做的兩件事情是以前馬英九沒有做的就是挖了兩個財政的大黑洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
361.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
372.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
核電 核一廠被停了核二廠被停了核三廠 醫藥機被停了馬上5月17號這個是你要一些關心的馬上停了以後一年的發電成本過電成本比以前多了1000億所以才會搞到你已經撥補了三次3000億丟下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
379.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
397.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
無底洞啊你還是補不了啊所以你現在又要1000億老實講再給你你還是補補不了要去解決核電的問題這是一個第一個綠電買得太貴這也是另外一個大的漏洞了你買進來的綠電後來賣出去的台電只有賣了10%90%都沒有賣出去所以企業買不到電更嚴重的台電因為這樣子一年多花了600億1000加600億每一年都1600億 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
408.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
435.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這不是波普跟漲價可以解決問題的要治本嘛 不要頭痛就一腳啊所以國發會有責任整個政府有責任去把病因找出來解決核電的問題解決綠電的這個問題這就不用漲電價啊可以像馬英九這樣可以下降啊所以我們現在期待看到的如果國發會提出一個比較理性專業的一個建議我們期待事業要看到的不是上價是往下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
436.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
456.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們會 這個謝謝委員 我們會去給經濟部建議那我也順便也報告我們 我有問過郭部長在綠電的部分是這樣子因為綠電需求來自於企業 所以它的綠電並不會到民間 會到企業那綠電成本的確一定是比較貴 但企業願意花比較高的代價去買 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
457.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
475.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那目前的狀況那綠電並不影響到我們現在就是很多企業或者工業區去工業區的時候他們在陳情說買不到綠電嘛那現在這個台電今年開始要賣R130這是一個起步啦可是現在很明顯就是因為你們以前買的每一年買了300億度的綠電喔結果後來都用髒電的價格3點多4點多就賣出去了所以賠了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
479.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
502.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
成本賠了600億那我們希望這個速度要加快你600億就可以回來了嘛對不對而且企業可以用到電嘛人民不用被漲電價這是三零嘛這要趕快做好不好好那我們來談核能核能最近有幾個非常重要的發展第一類AIT的處長谷麗妍啊接受自由時報的專訪的時候她明確講了一共啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
503.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
530.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
核能啊放眼全世界包括美國跟日本在內都在復甦使用核能就這兩個跟我們最好的也是我們最重要的盟邦也是一個先進國家的美跟日他們在重新用核電然後他特別提到這是因為很多公司需要穩定的基載電力等於核電是一個穩定的基載電力嘛對不對特別AI需要用很多電嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
530.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
555.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
美國跟日本都這樣做啦,更重要啦,你看這個美國的AIT的促定,美國願意幫台灣包括核能的部分這是釋放一個很重要的訊息我們美國這樣做,你台灣現在可能有電力的缺口不夠穩定或者是缺電,或者電價太貴,我要幫你發展核電啊,這個有沒有很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
556.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
584.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這信息很重要吧這個我們會幫忙反映給經濟部那這個部分我想委員在這個總質詢也垂詢過我想院長也有跟部長都有一個清楚的回答如果有新的技術院長是表達他對新的技術是開放的等一下我們來談新的技術我再跟你看一個剛講的是現任的AIT的處長另外一個是前任的AIT的處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
585.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
607.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
司徒文 司徒文講得更白了 他是參加一個這個兵推啊他直接講了 他說台灣現在面臨電力的切剖當其他的國家都積極在擁抱核能的時候 為什麼台灣政府要排斥核電呢你看現任的跟上一任的都這樣建議了 這兩個人都很重要耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
608.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
635.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
不只國發會我這個政府現在要好好去思考美國都已經開口了他一直幫你了幫完以後有兩個很重要的嘛電價是可以降的第二個我們的電力是可以穩定的對台灣太重要了好不好那另外那天的兵推啊也提到一個很重要的說來講用核能我急著要提醒了現在政府不只把核電停掉了他現在極力的去發展這個用天然氣那天的兵推啊發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
637.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
656.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們的如果目前一直在發展這個目前用天然氣啊我們的能源的穩定啊風險係數達到0.99的幾乎是百分之百啦他做了一個兵推他說啊中共在南海強行去檢查我們的這個液化天然氣的這個船隻 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
660.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
681.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
昨天啊 前天 中共不是也開始要演習了嗎他不要打你啊 他只要圍你就好了十天 天然氣就斷氣了 台灣就斷氣了這個也是 拜託一下 注意現在所有停掉的核電 幾乎都是用天然氣來補天然氣在現在兩岸的關係搞得這麼緊張我們隨時會斷氣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
686.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
709.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好不好好最後我們來做一個總結所以你剛講的你說院長那天提到說要有一個新的核能對不對我要問兩個問題院長是說不排斥院長那天是講不排斥嘛那所謂的新核能是什麼如果美國也開口了我們現在的核二廠看起來隨時可以重啟啊你看以前美國跟日本要重啟一個核電廠可能要五年六年 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
710.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
728.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
現在不是喔 現在大概都是只要確定是安全的一年到三年就可以用了所以核二很快就可以重新的啟用那問你 如果我們經過檢查之後核二廠跟核三廠是安全的可以重新再啟動它算不算行政院你們定義的新的這個核能 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
729.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
750.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個還是要由那個主管人員政策的經濟部來做決定那安全的部分要由核安會來做一個把關嘛安全當然有安全的部門嘛那現在就是行政院長這樣講他一直在講好幾次講新核能啊那我的問題是如果核落核酸重啟在安全狀況下重啟它算不算新核能還是只能用那個小型的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
752.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
772.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
只要看他維修的時候有沒有做一些新的改變院長是誰要問過你問過相關的部門才能夠這樣講吧因為我不是核能的專家也不是全職單位所以他不會問我所以你對於新核能這個定義你不清楚那你個人覺得如果是核二核三在安全的狀況下如果要重啟新的核能我的了解有很多新的技術在發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
773.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
793.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
除了 SMR 以外,事實上還有像 Bill Gates 投資的它是用氨然後去把輻射下降但它的新的危險是它比較容易爆炸這種新的技術還有在我們看到非常多合融合的技術在各個研究單位都在進行中所以這個就我們了解新的技術都還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
794.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
823.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我個人是有一些了解所以你是贊成你也肯定這種比較安全這種小型核能對不對現在只是說它的成本真的很高我比較保守看小型核能我沒有贊成我比較保守看這件事你是比較保守的原因是很簡單那你的看法跟那個院長可能就不一樣了這個照不是委員想想看我們現在去設一個變電所的零幣設施的抗爭就很大了我們去設一個SMR在它幾乎是以社區為主的話其實那個抗爭是我們不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
824.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
848.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
可行性高不高我覺得你認為這個小型這個核電還要再觀察就對了我是覺得保守看待他啦因為他要民眾能接受在我家附近那你要跟院長要再溝通一下因為他一直在強調用新核能嘛那只有兩種可能性嘛一種是你現在有疑慮的他認為要那到底是裡面有什麼問題要把它解釋清楚那第二個對民眾來講我到底什麼時候可以用到這所謂的新核能 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
848.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
869.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
是核二核三重啟啦還是你說的這個電廠一直在講的這個小型的好不好這個要努力最後問一個最關鍵的今天開始今天開始馬上好今天最關鍵的我們立法院的委員會已經開始在審這個要讓這個核電廠可以研議的或者重啟的今天開始公聽會已經開始了我要請教主委你的這個個人這個意見你贊不贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
872.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
890.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
讓我們的核電廠如果在安全的狀況之下核二的一號機二號機核三廠的一號機可以重新啟動或者讓核三廠的二號機可以沿用你個人的意見是怎麼樣我個人因為對這個領域沒有那麼熟悉但是我尊重各種法律的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
891.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
899.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那個主委你是國家發展的領頭羊電力非常重要我今天用了很多的時間去講這個核電的對我們國家的這個發展它關係到穩定關係到電價可以不要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
904.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
928.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以請國發會我建議這部分一定要不只是要關心要提出你們的規劃好不好好的我們來努力我記得國發會有責任4月1號能不能最近電價委員會馬上就要開了如果提到我們剛剛講的它會穩定來用便宜的核電連美國都開口了然後綠電趕快能夠賣出去的不要用高價買用低價去賣滿足我們的企業讓價格降下來只要解決核能跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
929.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
933.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
核能的問題還有綠電這個問題我們不只不用上架可以降價一起努力好不好謝謝好謝謝 |