| IVOD_ID |
159282 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159282 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-17T12:52:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-17T13:07:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:26 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/597499b2503050fb18ea4932f2d22c69ad7e46c29134393c19c9681c5de83954465aa8e1d032cc685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:52:34 - 13:07:00 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、教育部、經濟部、台灣電力公司、台灣中油公司就「氣象變異致國內空品惡化，精進預報與跨部會應變作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【3月17日、19日及20日三天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席 有請部長部長好部長好部長辛苦了啦不過我是剛剛在主持會議的時候我要提醒有人都聞是針對金融市那個案件我覺得您這邊的答案跟台電的答案是有點 |
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29.386 |
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有點落差不太好啦因為兩個的範疇原本就是不太一樣硬放在一塊在講程序的過程裡面我覺得這事情應該是最早就要先釐清應該是台電要趕快先跳出來講清楚 |
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而且是你們自主檢驗的部分確實已經有問題嘛對不對然後他現在又要另外另外一個範圍裡面那邊又有問題然後說你們去抽又出了問題我是覺得這個事情應該是可以講得很清楚我不曉得為什麼會 |
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用了這麼多時間而且在那邊爭執不斷嘛那當然我就沒辦法我就想說時間也拖太久後面有這麼多委員要質詢所以我就必須把它切斷那我還是建議說像這種事情可能要慎重而且要簡單而要明確的答覆清楚啦不要造成沒有必要這樣的一個一個一個一個分擾但如果講程序來講我還是我還是會著重在如果 |
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如果確實不管你台電自主檢驗的部分有出問題他另外講的換酬又有問題那顯然這個環評在進行中雖然是兩個是不一樣的程序但環境部還是要小心台電也是要小心才是一個正確的處理方式那我現在回到主題請教部長 |
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如果各單位在辦這種相關的課程的這個研習那我們也有自己的這個公部門派出的這個講師然後講的內容如果跟這一個我們要講習的實質內容是完全脫鉤完全是不一樣的內容的情況之下你知道這事情你會怎麼處理 |
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我會去了解他為什麼會這樣講因為還沒有遇過所以也請委員指正那你已經快遇到了我先提醒一下我們台灣是在2019年成為亞洲第一個通過同婚的國家那也成為這個亞洲人權最進步的一個燈塔部長應該認同嗎認同那如果有人在課堂上一直在講這個同婚是有問題的然後還在支持要反對 |
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那這應該不是個人自由的意志嘛因為他是在一個公部門辦的課程裡面然後來講這些東西然後跟課程完全不搭嘎那如果部長了解事實上又發生在你的部會你會怎麼處理我會先來了解然後會先去了解他為什麼會這樣講然後如果是有一些概念上的不一樣的話我會請他去上性品的教育好只有這樣而已嗎 |
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這個我們會如果查證屬實啦他今天我直接坦白講就這樣嘛他是在講什麼他是在講一個環境教育人員的認證研習班啦環境教育研習的認證這個這個範疇裡面跟同性婚姻有什麼關係如果都完全沒有關係的情況之下部長你會怎麼處理他說去你要叫他去上性評的課程還有勒 |
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委員再給我了解一下好不好我是先假設說你了解起來事實上就是這個樣子你會怎麼處理嗎我會第一個是說了解說他的影響的程度那我們事實上如果有一些要處罰的事情的話我們都有一個機制例如說我要找專家來看他怎麼樣怎樣處置會比較好那如果說他是太超過的話我們會嚴格禁止他外出不能講這些事情 |
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260.629 |
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外出不能講這個事情就是不能夠再上這個課我們會再瞭解一下因為我不知道這內容是什麼東西他就是是我們的一個授課講師然後是在處理環境階段人員認證的研習班上的課程講出這樣的內容 |
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279.876 |
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302.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我已經明確的表達了啦剛剛部長有答覆我第一個就是說會要求他去上姓名課程嘛對不對第二個我是問實質的他這一個環境教育人員的一個認證怎麼會跟這個同性婚姻有任何的關係那你如果知道這是一個屬實那你會怎麼做出相關的處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
304.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
324.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
未來不應該他來做這樣的工作所以委員我們再來調查了解一下你知道他不只是這樣還有很多離譜的他包含放的影片你看這個影片部長你看一下我特別標出出來那個右上角這是簡體字他用中國的相關的影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
333.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
359.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
來做課堂上的一個資料在播放那不只如此還有下一段你要看一下戴酸噎語指名道姓罵民間單位然後上面那一段還好沒有罵到你罵前院長只用自己人台灣人民民族性太民族沒有成果要依據民族性的做法哒哒哒 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
361.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
387.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個到底跟環境交易人員的認證有什麼關係沒有關係這個我們會來處理這個如果是屬實這一個環境部的這個講師而且又具備公務人員的身份部長要怎麼處置我們會組成專案小組來調查如果要處分的話我們會有一定的程序來去做懲處不只如此我今天是個學員 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
388.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
416.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我來參加這個課程我要繳錢嘛 對不對那我繳了八千塊我得到課程的內容是這樣這八千塊怎麼處理好 委員我們再來瞭解一下好不好這個是不是它是每一堂課都這樣還是怎麼樣我們會再來瞭解不用到每一堂課只要一堂課是這個樣子這八千塊這八千塊我們去跟人家收了 意義何在 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
419.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
424.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我覺得這是一個非常嚴重的事情請部長要慎重的來面對跟處理到現在還有這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
431.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
449.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
的官員的思維還有兼具這種行為然後又是在我們環境部辦的這種環境教育的人員的認證的一個研習班裡面我覺得是華天下是大忌就跟這件事情在講什麼言論自由的有的沒有的其實其實很 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
452.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
466.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我覺得很不可思議我也不曉得怎麼再把這個事情描述因為我聽到這樣的訊息過程裡面我覺得真的對我而言台灣已經民主化到這樣程度然後現在還有我們官員在辦這樣的課程裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
467.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
488.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
可以公然的在講堂上講出這樣的話然後用中國相關的影片來做他教學的相關的一些資料他到底要傳達什麼要做什麼動作政卿部長一定要非常慎重來面對這個事情好好把他處理好了好不好沒有問題 謝謝委員那今天最主要還是針對空氣汙染的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
490.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
513.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
環境部今天的報告說是全國的PM2.5從105年維克立方米到113年降到12.8維克立方米改善率是36%我要肯定環境部的同仁在107年空華的大修之後在這幾年的努力空溫的數值確實是有下降沒有錯但是好還是更好環黨在去年就喊出應該設定在9維克立方米部長怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
517.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
532.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
當然這個我當然是希望越低越好啦但是一個是可以達到的目標所以我們是希望說因為如果要往下走的話其實是真的需要很努力因為我們委員可以看這個數字一點點這個減量的幅度開始趨緩了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
533.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
550.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以當然我現在目前我們提出來應該是淨零可以讓我們這個空瓶可以持續的改善所以也跟委員報告我們那時候算出來如果我們達到淨零的目標的話2031年如果-28加-2的話其實有機會PM2.5可以到接近10年平均值 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
551.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
577.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
2030年 我們是四年要檢討一次嘛 對不對那我們第一期109到112嘛 第二期是113到116嘛116當然還沒有到達嘛那當時我們這個聯軍的標準是從15降到12而且我們環境部還是號稱是這個亞洲最嚴格的標準喔 對不對但是今年報告書就已經說 已經快達標了但如果事實上喔 不等你再看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
578.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
589.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
11到12的年均值分別是13.1還有14.7其實距離年均的所有微客立法院的目標真的是差不多多少了快達標了這是這個我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
593.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
619.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我剛剛特別提到好還是要更好所以我在這邊是不是可以建立部長你剛剛講的是2030年嘛那是不是我們是不是可以提早一點提早一點對嘛OK保委我們現在等於是說那個白皮書我們未來也希望引進更好的政策工具可以算出來我們到底什麼時候可以到因為我來的時候也跟同仁討論我們什麼時候可以到的確那個數字還出不來 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
620.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
641.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我建議還是要提前啦好不好就是部長的破例嘛那你講的白皮書剛剛有很多委員是要問你的規劃跟計畫嘛那白皮書白皮書也不是規劃跟計畫啊當然你的規劃跟計畫會配合你的白皮書嘛對 齊成嘛所以齊成我希望說2030年是不是可以再提早四年啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
641.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
671.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
有沒有可能非常辛苦要非常努力我們朝這個目標來打拚的好不好部長好那最後要請部長看這張圖齁就是今天的這個全國供氣品質的狀況黃澄澄的一片啦齁我今天特別安排這個主題是因為台灣的冰藥電平均雖然有明顯下降但到秋冬這個季節齁因為季風的關係嘛對不對齁污染物污染物無法擴散所以就產生明顯的這個霧霾齁尤其這幾天民眾特別感受到 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
672.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
683.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
在環境部的報告中也明顯的發現其實這幾年的B2.5的均值雖然已經降下來但是每年到這個秋冬的時候它又往上在提高你看11年46、11249、113是20、148.5了 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
690.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
716.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
上個禮拜的時候是排衛福部啦我特別跟部長提醒啦這個過年期間什麼地方的人數是會最多的地方觀光嘛 宗教嘛另外一個叫醫院嘛怎麼會在醫院發生這種急診有史以來的最嚴重的缺床的狀況然後這是急診議事會特別提出來的那我們每年都知道秋冬確實有氣候的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
718.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
744.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我們為什麼到現在沒有任何的相關的因應的作為不會讓這樣的一個空氣的汙染在秋冬的時候它所有的數值是往上在飆升的怎麼會沒有這不應該啊因為每年的秋冬它的特性我知道我知道我不要求說它已經就是到那個我們要達到那個目標均值嘛但是它已經增加到百分之二十、三十、四十在這樣跳 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
746.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
764.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這每天都要生活每天都要吸空氣啊但是你讓一季一個秋冬的季節反而更加的嚴重沒有辦法達到我們原有要求的這個目標跟這個標準情況之下這顯然有很大的一個改善跟檢討的空間嘛我不曉得在你的白皮書裡面針對秋冬有沒有特別因應的作為啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
765.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
792.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們這邊會提出一些例如說工業的啊或是交通改善的一些策略方式因為其實現在其實要很努力要到支柱必較啦啊其實這個真的要後面往往下做也跟委員報告就是進入一個深水區的不好做例如說汽機車的管制等等的這個其實是很辛苦的我們會來努力啦嘗試再把它報告白皮書裡面把它納入討論公眾的討論部長我用正面的方式來做鼓勵啦好不好也肯定嘛齁紅皮說 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
794.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
803.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
老實講我們不會說在台灣大家說四八檔嘛那怎麼知道處理,那不可能處理嘛那要去處理的人,那是逃到高中嘛那要玩王子嘛當時很多人這麼講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
805.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
817.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
都很進步水利署做到了啦謝謝委員那時候的指示然後完成了但是其實去年颱風多都有一些摧毀了那個海米颱風來之後後面就有兩個颱風那當然造成原有的不管是這種常規性的還是短暫性的這樣的一個相關的抑制措施顯然被破壞掉嘛那很快速的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
828.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
842.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
去做相關的一些應應他還是會降低這樣的一個風險跟傷害嘛我是用本來說他只要整治這個紅皮刷大家也都是有質疑嘛但是還是還是照這樣對啊謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
844.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
860.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以如果秋季 秋冬季我們就會遇到特別的這種氣候問題應該有相關依照部長的智慧跟各單位的同等的智慧應該是可以來解決吧好不好 我也會來努力啦好不好 一個月來可以提出相關的一些因應作為啦 可以不可以好 謝謝 |