| IVOD_ID |
159238 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159238 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-17T11:10:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-17T11:22:56+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/597499b2503050fb23c622125da3c988fc70f51a359b58cfeba1aea0cf818e9185ef96e8213ea40c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蔡其昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:10:08 - 11:22:56 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 請陳主委好 陳主委主委早這個主委預算刪除凍結這麼嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
44 |
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其實本席在質詢裡也有點辛苦啦因為涉及到預算的我都不問了啦你就沒錢我自己問一半是在問什麼所以如果我待會不小心還有問到跟預算有關係你就直接告訴本席說報告委員預算被動或者被刪所以沒辦法執行好 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
53.63 |
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這個預算啦這個送院會解凍這個本席也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
54.639 |
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80.214 |
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印象中也很少聽到這樣子解凍就在委員會現在這個可能要請議事處再研議看看送院會解凍的程序到底是要不要交付委員會先審再回送給院會來審這個可能大院要去研究一下因為至少在我印象裡面好像送院會解凍這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
82.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
101.119 |
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不知道,不管先回到我們的主題這個工程會,我的辦公室有問了一下最近大家都在做這個發包,都在做這個減項就做這個減項招標這個減項招標,都是因應著物價上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
108.817 |
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134.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那因為中央政府要地方政府要經費不足嘛那經費不足的情況底下事情很重要又要做所以呢我們就把它做減相的發包那這個減相發包本來本席就覺得這個問題很大因為等於是我們錢還不一定夠但菜都先點了 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
135.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
159.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那我們是預期反正一邊吃錢還會有人送過來餐廳所以我們就繼續吃那現在問題更嚴重的原因是因為我們原先帶來的錢又被刪除本來已經帶夠了但因為這個其他因素又把我們帶來餐廳要吃飯的錢又凍結又刪除所以這個減項發包的問題會越來越嚴重那 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
工程會這邊有提出這個減向發包這個主要還是因為大概有九成都是因為物價上漲這個沒有足夠的經費所以我們做這樣的一個調整那減向發包最後就會發現幾個問題譬如說這個台北中校橋 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
191.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
219.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個引橋拆除兩次流標那北市要檢向發包那這個檢向發包啊有沒有可能會出現這個有橋沒有路燈那像我們這個啊台中啊像大甲國中啊這個手球啊手球館它檢向發包的結果就是房子蓋好了裡面不可以打手球而且沒有門 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
220.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
248.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
沒有門 因為門當時檢像發包所以沒有門所以檢像發包它會產生我認為它會有一些問題譬如說報紙也看到醫院蓋但檢像發包所以醫院沒有防火門所以這個檢像發包的問題主委 這個的確是應該要認真工程會恐怕要認真來講否則以後這個案例會越來越多而且越來越荒謬 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
249.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
276.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
就不久之後我們就會看到這個本來檢向了那本來預期這個今年要補結果預算又被刪又被凍所以不能補不能補就會發現就會出現很多很荒謬的建築物或者很荒謬的案例我剛剛已經舉了幾個啦比如說我們手球場沒有門的啦譬如說可能蓋路橋沒路燈的啦譬如說醫院沒有防火門的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
277.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
289.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那我相信會越來越多所以這個要不要工程會要不要有一個統一性的指示對於檢像發包到底要怎麼來規範才不會出現這種亂象 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
294.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
309.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
剪相發包那當然也是目前政府採購法裡面這個有規範的一個發包方式那有時候是因為比方說這個原設計的費用跟他預期能夠獲得中央的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
328.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
有所落差或者是他獲得議會同意的預算有所落差那在不影響主要的這個工程的核心核心需求之下那麼去檢向發包那未來他有機會再擴充可能中央也同意說 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
329.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
349.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
夏年度或以後年度一定會給你那這種情形有時候是有在進行但是至於把主要的核心的價值不考慮那麼在預算還沒有確定的狀況之下做了一些比較不符合常規的減向花包那這部分的確工程會的確要來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
350.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
368.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那把這些太陽啊列為一個相對的教材那麼韓班各機關那麼對檢像花苞這件事情應該有一些負面表列要避開的這一類我們會同意蔡委員的這個主張我們會立即來改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
398.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好 謝謝主委啦 應該要有一些規範啦沒有規範 譬如說你要什麼樣的前提底下你減相發包是可以的什麼樣的狀況底下是不可以的譬如說什麼美術館減相發包那完工後還需要20億結果可能完工後沒有辦法使用就是殼子蓋好在裡面可能沒錢嘛那我的意思是說這個本來就算預算沒有被動被刪也可能會發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
399.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
427.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
就大家地方政府可能搶著 要有政績嘛就轉到花包出去了結果呢 什麼東西卡好卡好內容就沒有辦法所以會有很多那種案子就是奇怪大家看殼都已經蓋好了 為什麼遲遲不能使用那本席的意思就是說今年啊因為又預算遇到這個把中央的預算動成這樣 砍成這個樣子那所以可能這個問題本來就算我承諾你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
428.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
445.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
沒問題我本來可以承諾你結果沒想到沒有發生過預算被人家砍成這個樣子所以可能就沒有辦法承諾了就沒辦法履行那個承諾所以我同意主委啦就是你把它檢討一下就是什麼樣的樣態底下不可以再 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
446.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
474.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這樣子的方式去發包就檢像發包應該是要有條件的情況底下才可以進行這個檢像發包另外就是如果檢像發包預期要擴充那這個訊息要揭露不能只有單獨幾家知道其他的不知道會擴充而且擴充可能擴充很多所以這訊息是要揭露沒錯因為揭露在標的過程才會公平OK這個我覺得這個建議是很好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
476.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
504.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第二個我想跟主委請教那個CSR納入評比這個事情看起來公共工程會做的這應該是主計單位吧 審計處做的中央機關大概有三層做CSR的評比就是最有力標啦最有力標有納入CSR的中央大概三層國營事業大概四層地方政府僅有一層 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
505.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
531.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那我們都知道CSR你要最有利標我們要意思就是說我們評選 透過評選評選出最好的公司 最優質的公司能力最好的公司那這裡面有很多條件要去審核那這CSR的納入評比的比例這麼低像地方政府只有一成納入那這CSR裡面涉及到工資合不合理嘛薪資結構合不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
532.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
547.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那像這樣的一個照顧勞工考量這個勞工的權益的部分這種薪資合理化的這個部分所以有沒有什麼方法或者是未來有什麼計畫讓這個CSR納入評比的比例可以拉升 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
549.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
573.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好 謝謝蔡委員那麼我們目前正在整理相關的法規會朝向ESG方向來進行過去我們都講CSR目前因為環境重視所以用ESG當然我們會在評選的部分希望各機關在辦理有利標然後評選的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
575.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
590.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
有做到一定標準的他應該給他一定的分數來鼓勵企業那包括我們主席很重視的勞工的薪資的部分也都會納入加分的項目不過呢這個ESG或CSR有做沒做還是說做好做壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
592.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
614.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
有時候會差很多啦就有的公司可能那個永續報告寫得很漂亮那事實上沒在做啦所以這裡我們在還在思考用什麼樣的標準比較明確說這個公司他很努力在做ESG或者他已經做了10年了做20年了不是去年才做的那他有沒有像像這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
617.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
636.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個經管會或證交所他上市公司有沒有提永續報告這我們就規劃一個比較嚴謹的方式來鼓勵企業重視企業社會責任或者是環境這樣的或者相關的公司治理我們都會來考量這個會遵照蔡委員的交代來重新訂購一個比較嚴謹的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
638.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
661.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好 這個主委你也知道問題啦 第一個目標要清楚啦ESG也好 CSI也好 其實都是企業社會責任的指標那這個事情要推 政府再不動就很困難嘛 特別是在有利標但如同主委剛剛講的 也有可能會有公不公平 或者真的有落實嗎 這種疑慮 所以可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
662.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
677.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
評比的百分比或者我們有訂定另外一套去合格查實的這個方法 這個本席都支持那態度先有了後面就會慢慢推動嘛 好不好最後一個 這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
679.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
692.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
本席跟交通部這麼多年來一直在爭取這個我們台中大甲溪橋跟大安溪橋的改建那交通部跟本席講說已經送到工程會來審議那主委你知道這個案子嗎我是請我們這個處長來說明好不好這是屬於基本設計審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
702.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
711.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
就我們台中大甲西橋跟大安西橋年久了嘛現在公路局希望把它本席爭取要改建嘛來可不可以說明一下處長報告委員齁這個案子的改建案交通部已經送到我們工程會來審議齁那目前已經送送往國發會那國發會的現在已經在會診中 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
732.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
735.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以我們預期他的進度大概是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
735.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
764.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那國安會如果審閉行政院就會核定所以基本上等國安會應該很快如果基本設計就是工程會審閉國安會這部分只是一個改建沒有相關的環評或相關的問題國安會審這個會很快所以工程會審了我們審了才會送國安會已經出去了簡單講是這樣子那已經不在你們追案子已經不在工程會了是在國安會了這樣就好了謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
767.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
767.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好 謝謝我們 |