| IVOD_ID |
159216 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159216 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-17T09:24:35+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-17T09:41:38+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:17:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/597499b2503050fb6a8ee262de7c03fdfc70f51a359b58cfce1d26ba49c773cdb70c920121590e455ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:24:35 - 09:41:38 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席謝謝麻煩請我們陳主委好來陳主委委員長主委好 主委本席剛剛您聽您的這個書面報告那本席也一直強調就是說我們一起努力為台灣的公共工程品質來把關更重要是我們要好好的督促我們的公共工程嘛這你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
51.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
那所以說 公共工程重點在於是用專業數據來說話不要有任何模糊的數字你也同意嗎好 來 麥克風可以打開 沒錯那本席有看到因為昨天有這個公共工程產業在媒體刊登半版的聯合聲明要求說儘速解凍工程會的預算那本席想要知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
77.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主委事先知情嗎是一個廣告我們跟工程產業工會互動密切所以你事先知道我們事先知道有溝通過嗎有說明過嗎因為它裡面的重點是說儘速解凍工程會的預算不能沒有金質獎本席先強調我的核心立場我也認為金質獎很重要一定要辦非辦不可 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
93.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
COVID-19的時候我們都沒有延誤辦理金職獎了金職獎是國家重大建設發展當然要辦但儘速解凍工程會預算主委請教你解凍案送來立法院了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
108.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
解動換我們要執行預算30%以後才能送那目前執行到什麼程度了目前還沒有到30%所以你還沒有執行到30%你也沒有辦法送進來那沒有辦法送進來我們要怎麼解我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
109.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
133.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們判斷這種解凍方式因為我們是凍結50%的業務費嘛然後必須院會解凍同意時的凍資這個是遙遙無期但是你要先送進來委員會其實沒有遙遙無期啊 主委本席剛剛開宗明義就強調不要似是而非講清楚來 我先請教去年度公共工程委員會總預算有多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
135.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
150.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
將近四億五千萬左右四億九千萬你少了四千萬今年我們核定的預算總共有多少錢它五億五左右五億五多增加了多少費用五千萬是包括人事費還有多增加了多少費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
151.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
178.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
五千萬多增加了公共工程委員會今年核定的預算比去年多增加了五千萬整體經濟增加嘛這是主委剛剛所說明多五千萬這是必然的必然的這也是經過委員會審議經過立法院我們同意所以說立法部門行政部門我們共同認為說台灣經濟發展所以我們有增加工程會五千萬的預算立法部門並未同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
178.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
204.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
有啊如果說沒有同意的話怎麼會最後通過我現在解凍50%就凍了1億左右主委你這樣子就似是而非了如果說沒有同意的話怎麼會到最後通過預算還沒有同意使用預算是不是立法部門到最後通過的通過裡面凍結1億啊凍結50%啊凍三減了1000多萬啊但是你現在你現在執行的數目是怎麼樣你現在執行都還沒有到超過30%啊所以其實主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
206.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
225.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
不用似是而非我們就事論事本席從過去到現在就一直強調其實公共工程非常重要而今年的預算比去年已經多成長了五千萬還有更重要的是到目前為止工程會還沒有送進解凍案我們怎麼樣來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
226.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
251.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我想交通委員會的委員一定會本職專業如果說你真的送進來說明清楚的話該解凍我們一定會解凍但重點是你什麼時候要送解凍案進來報告委員是什麼時候可以送解凍案大院的主決議是院會同意時的動之並不是交通委員會來審理委員會審查完畢之後送院會院會也會尊重委員會的意見嗎這個從來未有過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
252.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
但是重點在於是你什麼時候要送進來這個立法院從來沒有做這樣的主委什麼時候要送進來我們你什麼時候認為送進來還是現在民進黨要搞下鄉要搞這些宣傳所以說就是明明應該是行政部門要送進來的你現在就不送 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
270.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
什麼時候能夠送進來我們會依大院的規定送進來什麼時候可以送進來我們依大院的規定如果說你沒有送我們怎麼解你沒有同意動資預算我們怎麼辦金職獎你現在要解凍然後你現在又跟我講說我們要同意但你又不送解凍案我們要怎麼同意金職獎現在是要接受報名的我們要怎麼同意很多工作都在進行實際上還在進行本來延續性的計畫預算法裡面就規定很清楚主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
312.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
不要是是而非啊預算法本來就規定的非常清楚延續性的計畫本來就可以來做一個使用但重點是你們什麼時候要把解凍案的方案送進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
314.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
341.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
主委告訴國人你們什麼時候要送我們才能夠討論如果委員給我們一個明確的答案什麼時候能夠同意我們使用我們就決定辦或不辦主委這個就是你似是而非你連送進來的說明都沒有然後你就跟我們講說要立法部門開空白支票同意根本荒謬啊我們為什麼相關的計畫預算有些會凍結我想之前很多委員不管藍綠啊我們現在召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
343.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
364.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
李昆哲委員他也有凍結過預算啊但是他會要求行政部門提出相關的說明之後可以解凍我們就解凍但重點是你現在連說明都沒有說明出來你就跟我們講是說一定要立法院先同意我才要送根本荒謬根本凌駕立法委員的質詢權凌駕立法委員的審查權主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
382.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
法定國家行政機關有可以那麼的傲慢嗎所以主委能不能說明清楚你們什麼時候要送相關的計畫有沒有辦法說明清楚有沒有辦法說明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
388.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
415.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
主委你不能反指許但重點是委員會會有本來就有合理的解凍的程序你不用在那邊事事而非無焦點現在就是國人大家看得清清楚楚工程委員會的主委沒有辦法向國人說明清楚你什麼時候要送解凍案你如果說沒有送解凍案的話我們何來可以審查這就是工程會主委的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
417.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
430.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們依法會受解凍本席非常的遺憾我覺得說到目前為止你還是沒有辦法針對問題回答問題沒有辦法向國人說明清楚你們到底要怎麼做能夠送入這個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
432.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
454.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
行政官員每一位其實下面都在偷笑因為看到聽到主委那麼的沒有這個行政的一個邏輯跟觀念你連最基本的要送入立法院來申請解凍都沒有辦法都沒有辦法承諾的時候然後你現在一直在鬼打牆講說你們什麼時候要同意你們先同意我們再送荒謬荒謬 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
455.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
479.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這就像是跟老師講說老師你先給我歐帕歐帕了我才要考試你承諾歐帕我才要考試莫名其妙主委我再請教去年你有說要現實的政府採購法規定公開招標要三家以上的合格廠商才能夠開標但是現在想要修法刪除三家的廠商門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
481.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
506.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個是我們收集各界的意見準備4月辦理預告預告所以4月會出爐4月會辦理預告那預告之後呢預告之後送行政院會審查審查通過報大院來整理那有沒有討論因為過去其實大家有在講說過猶不及有一些部分是說如果說有三家的這個門檻當然可能會造成說公開招標的一個進度上的拖延 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
506.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
526.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
但另外一個部分如果說解除了這樣的一個門檻未來只要一家就能夠開標會不會有產生其他的弊端有沒有想過如何來做相關的配搭這個各界意見反映很多所以我們中理之後會來預告再聽取各界意見到時候大院審理的時候可以來所以有防弊機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
527.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
536.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不是 這個我們會再聽取各界意見當中是 你聽取各界意見 但你們不是要先預告嗎4月要預告的部分 你們的房地機制有沒有預想在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
537.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
557.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
現在的採購方式跟過去不是電子化的時代差很多啦所以資訊完全公開透明所以我們聽取各界意見之後認為如果維持三家才能夠開標的話往往是造成流標的主要原因所以未來會只要一標一家投標就可以公開招標這是我們準備預告的草案內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
558.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
581.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好 那防備機制在裡面有沒有設計相關防備機制在草案裡面會有好 草案裡面會有本席等著看我們四月的公告那本席也會討論因為這還是一樣重點在於是提升政府行政效能裡面我們要思考到防備的機制所以說剛剛主委既然已經提到說有所謂防備機制我們期待工程會提出來的版本最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
582.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
599.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我再確認一下因為本席非常關心氣候變遷因應法所謂2050淨零碳排那其中工程會非常重要的一個部分就是有所謂的減碳作業指引那主委也講說減碳作業參考指引會預計在今年出爐請教什麼時候會出爐 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
601.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
623.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
114年年底今年年底到目前目前都已經有在做執行了持續在收集資料當中好 持續在收集資料當中所以這個指引本席也要提出因為過去工程會在2022年就已經有發布公共工程節能減碳減核注意事項要求我們各機關訂定節能減碳的減核機制跟目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
624.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
646.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
請教2022年到現在提出來哪些部門有達標哪些部門還有改進的空間這個不是標準我們持續在進進當中將來會改成我們收集相關的這個排蛋係數那麼建立一個完整的計算碳的一個這個系統然後提供給各機關在設計的時候參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
648.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
656.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
過去要機關來填寫這個碳排的接落部分這個政策我們在逐步在調整當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
657.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
685.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好 那但是本席我們會改成收集係數你還是沒有回答本席的問題啊 主委本席問的是說2022年我們工程會議既然我是可以肯定的喔不管是那個時候你還不是主委那時候是吳主委嘛吳主委在的時候本席也跟他就教過因為淨零碳排本席非常重視尤其是零碳建築所以當時有提出來這個注意事項的時候我們也認為說不要一步馬上要求各部門到位但至少我們了解一下各部門在 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
687.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
712.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
從2022年開始到現在2025年過去兩年的時間裡面哪一些部門比較做得好哪些部門還有加強空間我們有沒有去做了解不能用這個標準這工程會提出來的然後你跟我講說不能用這個標準減核注意事項是一個定性提醒機關說你辦理公共工程設計的時候要注意到減碳的相關作為哪些部門有做到哪些部門沒做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
713.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
740.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
有沒有去了解因為不是強制性的因為不是強制性嘛是嘛所以主委你講出大白話了嘛第一2022年那時候提出來是工程會自己提出來的那沒有強制性也因此我們就不了解說到底哪個部門真的有比較符合這個標準哪些部門沒有因為工程會也沒有去做管考考核那現在你要再做一個檢探作業參考指引會不會有一個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
741.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
767.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
減碳的部分各機關他有自己會不會有一個標準會不會又變成沒有強制性你今年年底出來的會不會又是另外一個利益很良善但是沒有強制性的標準工程會的目的是要建立一個比較完整的這個減碳的所有工程的排放係數那這個排放係數是包括工程單項它每個單項排碳多少給各機關去參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
769.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
780.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
您把工程會看小了 做小了工程會絕對不是只是提出一個標準跟各機關參考是國家重大工程的主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
782.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
802.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
主委本席提出來是對於我們工程會有非常高的期待我們也希望減碳的主管機關重點在於是你是國家重大工程的主管機關能不能用國家重大工程來符合減碳的標準這才是重點主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
803.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
831.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
本席是在野黨的委員但我絕對不是說跟你站在對立面我們一起督促是要讓國家的重大工程更好請聽本席一句話本席過去就強調如果我們現在要2050淨零碳排往前回推現在只剩25年其中零碳建築是一個很重要的參考指標我之前就提過能不能說從現在開始要求至少公部門先行 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
832.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
858.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
國家的工部門的建設從現在開始就用零碳的建築標準來去做帶領私部門如果說我們連自己工部門編列預算的建築都沒有辦法達到零碳建築我們怎麼有辦法期待私部門私人的企業私人的建築來做零碳建築所以這一些部分才是我們希望工程會能夠跳出來當領頭羊的部分我可以說明嗎每一個工程有他的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
859.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
887.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
包括結構安全包括方便性等等減碳是其中之一所以各部門的設計是一個最適設計達到一個最好的目標減碳跟安全跟什麼是不衝突的不會因為減碳所以說犧牲安全不會因為減碳而犧牲相關的一個目標如果主委你還停留在過去20年前這種思維的話那我真的很擔憂我真的非常非常的擔憂結構不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
889.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
911.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以你要選擇鋼構有選擇鋼構的理由那我跟委員報告選擇鋼構你也可以用零碳建築的方向任何事情都會有排碳沒有零碳建築可以用各種的政策目標手段2014年英國就已經宣布他們接下來2014年之後的國家重大公共工程都是用零碳建築 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
912.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
932.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
別的國家做得到你現在2025年10多年之後你跟我們講說沒辦法要不要請教一下環境部我們現在在呼吸就在排碳了所以不會有零碳建築這件事情主委這樣子你完全忽略跟羅浮根不了解零碳建築的定義沒有零碳這件事情我們呼吸都在排碳 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
934.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
960.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
主委怎麼會有零碳建築這件事情沒關係這個是公共工程委員會的主委所定立的方向請各位媒體朋友記得主委這一句話如果說連我們國家重大公共工程的主管機關都跟世界趨勢背道而馳的話那這就是民進黨政府的態度這就是現在環境部要定出來如果說連公共工程委員會都講說這個是沒有這件事情的話那代表國家從頭到尾都在騙人 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
962.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
979.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
國家要這樣騙人嗎你要用這樣子的一個話術主委本席很務實的很專業的很理性的要來跟你做討論但是你用這樣的一個方向其實凸顯的就是你對於本身的公共工程掌握的真的不夠透徹 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
980.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
995.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我非常遺憾 謝謝跟大會報告一下我是代理召委那我們也尊重這個相關的議事的程序每位委員是6加2分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
997.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1022.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
其實另外加時的時間其實已經超過6分鐘其實已經再加8分鐘了那我們都開飯店不怕人家吃飯了但他終究是有營業時間超過營業時間我們很難再招待下去主委未來備刑官員好好針對問題回答問題我都雙方都尊重我雙方都尊重謝謝 |