| IVOD_ID |
159189 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159189 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第5次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第5次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-14T11:19:41+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-14T11:50:42+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:31:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c41c7866a52398a32b30523c8fa5a19769f2953f6d3be0947db518ab5281ceb1a911ee759332f825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳昭姿 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:19:41 - 11:50:42 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第5次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。二、3月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、3月18日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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謝謝主席有請卓院長謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢陳委員好院長好院長2月26號的時候邱部長他帶著一群官員去視察了幾家這個醫院的這個急診擁塞的問題當他出來的時候他向媒體說急診擁塞 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
46.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
64.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這個篩報已經趨緩了那這句話後來引起醫護的大反彈那為什麼呢因為它不是真相那為什麼不是真相呢那個院長因為官員當然不是部長本身官員向來他要視群視察很多單位的時候他都會事先讓他們知道嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
66.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
82.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那你看大家都習慣性要先做現場的清理還戰場的清理就好像說我們家裡有客人來然後我們就會清理一下這個客廳之類的這樣做法所以部長如果真的要去了解真相的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
83.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
109.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
是不是應該採用這個不事先通知不預告式的方式那你才有辦法得到真相啊所以你當你說這個趨緩的時候後來醫護是大反彈我對於我這樣的建議我不知道院長您的想法如何實際狀況不長清楚但是我認為我們對衛福部在處理這件事情很多的方法我們可以給他很多的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
110.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
127.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
指正但是對他們的態度還是給他們基本的尊重我們支持但是我也跟其中的院長了解他們長官來他總是要做習慣性清理戰場嘛這是一個習慣性的動作這請邱部長回答因為我知道他那天跑了好幾個醫院到底狀況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
127.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
137.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
部長我知道因為這不是您做但是我現在想要談這個官場文化我的重點不在於就是說那天這個狀況後來醫護反彈你這個小颱風掃過以後醫護反彈啦對不對我跟委員報告一下謝謝謝謝委員關心那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
147.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
如果說只要數據的話這些醫院所有的後床我們都掌握在手上可是我們真的是想要去給他打氣所以絕對不是視察而且這所有的院長你很清楚嘛大家都是非常熟悉的好朋友那他們事後都表達所有的醫院的院長甚至公開給媒體說他們完全是正常的運作小颱風少過以後的影片好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
177.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
191.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
對你可以不要增加急診然後你就增加樓上的樓頂我們是要死了嗎你都要逼死我們了我們護理人員這麼命健嗎真的不想幹無能不能幹你就下台啊部長就下台啊社長應該要下台啊不能夠體會我們然後眼睛都擋在頭頂上說我們小網貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
194.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
204.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
院長我是想跟你討論一個官場文化啦我們不得不承說當年那個交通部長連湛先生他當年就是說他面對這個人家指責說台北的交通問亂難行然後面對這樣指責他回答說他每天中午都有回家用餐但是沒有浪費多少時間但是我覺得部長當時連部長他不知道他棄派的部長車前面有所謂的這個引導車 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
223.906 |
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240.013 |
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他會引導開到前導車還有交通警察也會去控制紅綠燈所以他一路暢通無阻當然回家的路是很順暢的所以我想起這一段連在交通部長當時對台北交通的評語因為他是交通部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
241.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
268.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
邱部長您要去了解到底急診擁塞到什麼狀況其實有點類似就是有一點點不食肉糜的這個情況所以我的意思是說院長我今天想跟您討論這樣的官場文化是不是我們可以思考來改變我想請教院長院長您知道那個銀行查核金庫庫存是用什麼方式嗎您知道嗎那是它的核心查核項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
269.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
279.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
如果是不定期的查核會比較產生效果不只喔他們是這樣第一個不預先告知第二個他一大早門還沒有開就站在銀行面前門一開他就進去查因為什麼因為這樣才有真相嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
285.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
313.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
有真相就知道如何解決問題嘛這樣才能解決問題所以我是想請院長考慮一下官場文化啦我們去視察齁第一個也不要勞師動眾啦第二個也不要事先通知讓他們準備當然你去安慰他打氣他是OK的可是那天我們明明要是了解一個大危機啊急診庸篩的大危機啊所以這個銀行才去甩surprise check所以院長您同意這個觀念跟想法嗎是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
315.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
339.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
謝謝院長好 那外部部後來說要就醫分流嘛那就醫分流就要談分級醫療談分級醫療就談醫院評鑑啦好 那我讓院長知道金週刊在2015年就做過一個專題啦他指出現在的醫院評鑑是假面台灣的縮影這都是他的用詞喔不少認證或評鑑是為了製造這個醫院它有完善的管理的一個假象但是我要告訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
341.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
369.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
兩位我想部長都知道醫護人員他為了處理為了應付評鑑其實他花很多時間在整理資料甚至有時候必須有點虛印甚至造假這個名詞還是他們的而且這些造假已經危及醫療品質了其實我現在拿這些話去問我的好朋友醫院的高層他們也都是不否認那我要告訴院長的是現在的醫院評鑑每年都花很多的錢跟人力但 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
370.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
380.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
但是深隔的醫院越來越多病長你有覺得很奇怪嗎你明明聽到醫護人員說我們是血汗我們是血汗然後他們要出走醫護人員說要出走 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
381.857 |
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400.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那為什麼醫院評鑑的成績越來越好大家一直升格通過的越來越多而且一直往上升院長你不覺得奇怪嗎你不覺得這件事很奇怪嗎我們的醫院評鑑的制度啊已經20年沒有大幅度的修改我覺得現在是應該必須要進到 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
401.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
427.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
大幅度而且有目前針對這種社會現象修改的時候我也要求院長認同就是說我們明明知道他們的聲音明明知道他的困境怎麼會成績是越來越好這是一個很奇怪的所以衛福部是否該研議我知道這有點困難但是總要起步如何讓醫院評鑑也效法銀行金庫查庫存的精神不事先通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
428.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
455.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
做surprise check不事件通知然後你才有機會得到真相啊不然呢 評鑑當天都是滿分啊什麼都沒有問題啊 急診也沒有篩報啊平常日呢 那一天看起來工作量合理啊人力也都足夠平常天呢 你三四年才評鑑一次耶其他的日子怎麼辦部長請你想想看因為院長也不反對我們去研議這個方向嘛我們要去真相嘛在國外也有人這樣做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
456.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
480.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
報告委員 現行的制度是不是部長可以說明一下我們現在有抽查的機制 不定期的追蹤 輔導那是因為被發現缺點啦 我也當過評鑑委員欸 十年喔現在有 但是我們把它更健全我覺得應該要發揮到效果 依照現在的社會現象部長 因為這是過去長久的做法啦我覺得你是在概括成說 但是是不是可以演繹 我們總要進步嘛我們方法總要進步嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
481.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
496.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
報告委員,我們已經成立醫院評鑑改革小組,由你很熟悉的蔡森田教授當招集人要換一些腦袋不同的人去處理你剛剛提的意見我們都會把它列入評鑑裡面來討論如果延期過去就沒有,謝謝你啦,至少要去檢討好,那院長,去年就有人向我檢舉,台大醫院流管床,場域最近吧,我們就去看那教授他不定時都會寄照片給我,那個流管床常態的擁塞到正門大廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
510.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
517.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因為那個正門大廳有一個舞台那個舞台可以辦活動可以辦音樂會你知道嗎旁邊有流觀場還繼續辦音樂會這是台大醫院當然我不說責任我們要怎麼來討論那我當時有請台大醫院我們都母校部長這個請他來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
531.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
546.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那當然我的重點第一個先問嘛因為我們都知道一定有上面的病床的問題我先問台大醫院他來的是副院長跟一個急診部副主任那我就問他說你們護理師足夠嗎他們立馬告訴我說台大醫院不缺護理師 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
548.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
563.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不過這個跟後來的台大工會跟我講的不太一樣他們告訴我那下來我當然問他一個內行人的話那我問他說那醫院評鑑那天呢因為不會過嘛這是不對的嘛因為怎麼讓劉官常塞到正門大廳呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
564.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
590.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他們很老實跟我講說我們會清乾淨就是這樣子那難怪這個醫改會這個劉前董事長說醫院評鑑戲都排好了不會有意外有一師身份的有一位這個衛福全院士他公開投書表示碰通虛偽的醫院評鑑制度敗壞醫療評鑑委員缺乏現實感或同理心條文越來越嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
591.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
620.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那越定越脫離現實當然這個院士他是從不同角度切入他認為你定的太嚴但是結果都是一樣都是沒有真相所以我是不是可以再一次鄭重的要求醫院評鑑也應該效法銀行金庫查困處的精神盡量不做事先告知的一個評鑑否則沒有真相我今天可不可以得到院長您往這個方向去研議呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
621.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
643.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
是的 剛剛部長答覆我們已經有醫院評鑑改革小組既然我們委任這個改革小組進行未來的精進的作為那我的重點是那這個就要帶到改革小組裡面去 是的說委員集的建議要把這樣的機制放到未來的評鑑機制裡面去當然有些東西可以準備但是有些事情你要真相就是你現場去看他怎麼照顧病人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
644.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
656.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你可以直接突襲啊,平常怎麼照顧病人不是四年考試一次,才那一天怎麼照顧病人啊報告委員,我們都長期當過評鑑委員我想評鑑委員都是非常德高望重,而且都是當過院長級的人他們應該很了解這從structural process以及outcome這幾個來評鑑但是如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
671.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
685.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
委員的意見我們一定列入評鑑改革小組來看我們試試看有沒有真相我們評鑑餐廳秘密課的方式工作量都合理人力都足夠一個秘密的評鑑委員不露身分去了解現場的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
687.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
696.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
回來以後大家收集起來共同討論結果成績都越來越好今年是健保30週年那我跟院長談一個法健保法規定政府應該負擔36%的保費經費我想說一直以來這個36%有沒有負滿、負足 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
706.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
722.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個部分我等一下稍後跟院長討論那天賴總統跟邱部長您都出席了健保三十永續研討會照片上的人物都被認為是這幾十年來對健保非常有貢獻的人其中楊志良署長他面臨嚴重虧損的時候他講了一些話他認為調漲保費才能減緩問題維持永續經營跟社會公益當時他這樣說 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
732.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
737.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
健保不能倒 醫療不能少 保費不能漲只有請上帝當署長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
739.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
761.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
院長你能夠同意這句話嗎我們還是有很負責而努力的服務人員健保保費的調整一直是最後的手段我們過去也是用到補充保費而已那目前也不輕易的動我是認為還是我過去講的一句話小病不要保大病沒煩惱那就是分級醫療 不過分級醫療是另外一個問題今天沒有時間討論因為醫療進步太快了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
764.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
784.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
太快的話它像這種精準醫療等等它是非常的昂貴因為它的研究方式等等規格越來越高就是時代過了啦那30年嘛那貴黨在執政第九年啦你貴黨也很有機會長期執政啊所以你要承擔這個責任嘛你知道其實30年來只有三次漲保費一次還是陳總統時代那個李明亮署長他就把保費漲了然後華麗轉身下台 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
792.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
821.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
楊志良署長也一樣啊他把保費占了結果他呢承擔政治責任下台可是現在搞成政治議題啦現在搞到每一位衛福部部長上來都宣稱我任內不占保費部長你不要講喔你去年8月也講了這句話我要告訴院長的是說院長我們當然知道人性嘛人性有它的弱點或是它的限制點但是我們總是要跟民眾溝通嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
822.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
830.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
你要跟他溝通 你怎麼認得讓這個醫護人員他們繼續做功德啊那直到有一天醫療大崩壞啊你現在看到急診 將來看到整個醫療大崩壞啊所以 院長就請你思考一下齁我常常呼籲國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
838.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
854.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
三十年來我們受到健保的保障國人的健康現在經過三十年是我們回頭去保障健保制度的時代每個人要知道自己多負一點責任讓這個健保延續下去也是留給我們後代子孫最大的一個健康的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
854.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
859.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
謝謝院長因為部長您在承諾說不漲保費當然我有過去的包袱但是你也談到一個重點你有提說提高政府負擔健保經費剛剛我提到36%考慮到提到38%很多人支持提高政府負擔健保經費我現在要告訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
876.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
892.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
院長一個我長期幾十年熟悉的數字台灣的醫療支出佔整個GDP大概6%大概6.1%或6%那你比起目前有30個OECD國家它的中位數或是平均數很靠近都是9% |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
893.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
902.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
你輸人累不累?你末段班倒數第二個第三個這是第一個事實那如果你把長照的經費也加進來大概是7.5%可是如果別人也加進來的話韓國是9.8%才將近10%GDP那我們7.5%那日本是超過11%大概靠近12% |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
914.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
924.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所以我們的健康醫界一定有跟你一直吶喊我們的健康長期是投資不足的那現在我們先從基本點做起我們提到說政府因為依據健保法就是說36%那你覺得可以提高38%可是問題這個36%我剛剛說沒有付足一直在吵因為大家都隨便解釋各自解讀到底這36%你是怎麼計算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
940.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
957.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那院長我再念一次給你聽健保法第三條規定政府每年度負擔的總經費不得少於每年度保險經費扣除法定收入或金額的36%但是任由各部會亂七八糟解讀這一張最上面那條就是框架我剛剛念一次給院長聽了院長我現在先在這裡跟您澄清希望你能夠向大家澄清請問36%是上限還是下限 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
968.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
980.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
文字的記者是不得少於啊所以呢不得少於就是如果政府的財政能力可以的話當然是可以著家依法啦 依法嘛 你們常常說要依法嘛依法你如果說是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
983.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1001.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
下線嘛 是不是啊 沒錯吧 文字不得少於嘛各機關遵照辦理啊 賣過差就遵照辦理 到底有沒有附到36如果是上線的話 那剛剛部長 外部部建議的本身就要調啊修法 我們來修法 趕快修法我們先把這個36先釐清 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1004.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1030.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
第二個問題點,院長我麻煩您再用心一下健保法實行細則第45條有列一項補助七類人員的保費它可以算是36%的一部分嗎?這個是算法的這個七類人員我隨便提一下就是包括原住民、中低收入戶或重重住的一些身心障礙者現在就是我想說這個部分政府有時候把它當作社會福利支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1031.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1056.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
然後又說是保費的補助然後又是保費本身這一魚多吃耶你想這個烤鴨三吃喔你是要算幾次院長我跟你複習一下在我們的保費的負擔雇主是60%那員工或是當事人勞工是30%然後政府是10%就是6比3比1 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1057.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1081.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那我請問你以公務員人做例子喔因為你同時扮演這個雇主跟這個政府的角色請問你請問你你把你分用雇主身份付的錢你要送進去政府喔啊你這樣送啊你這吃人家豆腐啊院長怎麼辦吃人家豆腐啊你怎麼算報告委員喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1082.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1101.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我想我們在施行細則裡面的確市數條剛剛你也提到政府其他的補市的保險費也含社會福利這常常過去就把它塞在這36%好了那就是不能塞吧但是我們的政府在我們左院長指示之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1103.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1116.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
確實把他的財務責任跟落實健康台灣永續健保這個政策所以我們把那個保惠就是社會福利有拿出來所以特別在編了134億的公務預算這是有史以來最落實的 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1125.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1131.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
也就是這樣子,讓我們跟健保總和也是我們先回到醫學中心,這個圖,院長沒人的我會給你啦這個監察院已經糾正衛福,它照樣耳邊封嘛因為醫學中心就越來越多啊我非常驚喜,謝謝院長,您上次在回答我質詢的時候你非常精準的回答我,兩百萬人一家醫學中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1148.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1163.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
可是每個部長都加碼啊薛恩人加碼三家啊那邱部長你昨天我質詢我也說你又加碼一家你先不要說明我知道你講了很多理由但是你的規範就是增加所以就是這樣子台灣如果照人數算是大概12家2340萬人那現在我們有27家加上兒童業有人說到29家 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1169.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1187.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
你允許我這樣感受啦如果說勞動部動用了就業安定基金去做公關人情啊因為現在已經有人被收押進鑑了就是這樣那我可不可以說衛福部用醫院評鑑在大做公關人情呢?絕不允許 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1188.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1206.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
不是因為我的意思是說你醫院評鑑違反規定你越來越多醫學中心你知道院長醫學中心是成績越高嘛醫學最高嘛給付越好嘛溢價能力買藥買醫材的能力越好嘛病人越多嘛因為台灣人大家都被引導成要大醫院才好嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1207.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1211.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好康很多啦這部長你看這個圖這個圖當時我就說1995年是健保開辦元年那時候結構很清楚醫學中心這個13家48家區醫院然後下面568家25年後這醫學中心變兩倍區醫院長胖了1.5倍唯獨這個地區醫院剩六層不到腰斬嘛那我就問過薛部長說將來會變什麼他也不理我 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1233.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1260.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
這將來是變成這樣子 頭重腳輕嗎所以這個圖 院長這個圖就是跟你說醫療分級在崩壞啦那剛剛我們談到急診雍三他最後的解讀也是要處理分級醫療的事情啊所以這個圖 拜託你給我放在心中好嗎這個事實嘛 這是個事實三十年前我們在看這個金字打型的最重要的還是急診醫療 讓他能夠強壯我還有很多要跟你分享的 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1261.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1265.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
龍寶寶本來龍寶寶是特別多的但是過去這一年龍寶寶誕生了多少呢大概14萬4856人是歷史上的新低所以無論你們如何努力掃紙化目前是失敗你也必須承認那儘管如此我的人工生殖法案待運你們以托待騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1282.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1286.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
你把待遇弄成政治議題你有沒有跟總統商量過他早期請我都不行我近期也是有跟他溝通你那次跟我說平台上的意見有八成是反對你也知道網路平台他不是民調 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1300.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1326.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
它不是民調啊 它是一個意見可能有一些意見我們在他們concern他們關心的點是什麼可是真正民調國建署做過連游盈榮教授最近也幫我做了民調啊至少差十幾個百分點啊支持的跟反對的不然外部部也做一次民調啊我的意思是說部長他們也不敢說完全禁止他是說要脫鉤啦 專法那我請問你寫出來沒有寫出來了嗎你的代孕專法寫出來了嗎你在應付我嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1330.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1355.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
請部長再答覆,但部長不是光靠網路來了解,也開過了四次的專家會議那不是事實,那不是一個科學性的民調所以全世界有40個國家都已經通過待遇將來很多大法官歷年都被表態他們是支持的,不印證醫師他們有專業技術等著幫忙我拜託不要再凌遲這些病人 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1356.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1381.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這個著名的女演員Lily Collins她們在Instagram她就表達她們說永遠感謝黛玉媽媽她們有一些美好的經驗我要下面告訴院長的重點院長很多國際級的企業員工都給家庭強力的後盾成立家庭強力的後盾例如Google它為黛玉的員工提供最高兩萬美金的補助Netflix 7.5萬我們親愛的台灣之光NVIDIA黃元勳 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1386.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1403.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
對待孕全補助您可以跟黃仁勛商量一下為什麼他有這個想法所以我今天談的不是病人的問題是人權還有國安的問題喔院長大罷免重要還是亡國滅種重要啊趕快搶救亡國滅種啦好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1406.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1427.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那現在謝謝邱部長有請世界環評鬧劇的兩位主角上台環境部彭部長經濟部郭部長我一邊談我要讓院長知道世界環評委員要求台電要進行土壤污染偵測來分析這個總石油碳淨化合物叫TPH這個代表污染的一個指標結果台電在偵測時只選了一處一個點位 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1430.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1435.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
採樣時間是2019年12月6日,請記好兩位部長,2019年12月6日一觸,好要告訴你說沒問題,偵測不到,沒有污染那我先請問院長跟彭部長,環境部跟環評會對於污染的偵測只選一個點位,一觸,你們接受嗎?一觸就可以啦,一個點就可以啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1453.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1474.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
報告委員,土屋跟開發這是兩件不一樣的...等一下,我知道你大概就這樣,問題是這是第二階段的環評要求,你的環評委員會也要求,還有一個土屋法,土壤復發也是說過你必須整治完善後才能再利用啊,你是不是就說要再利用啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1475.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1496.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
所以這個法部長不是這樣說的啦我再給你更多證據那請問兩位部長先等我一下本席今天要正式揭發協和世界開發單位台電公司在2019年的二階第二階段二階環屏土壤檢測數據涉嫌造假舞弊隱私我有證據 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1502.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1515.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
台電公司和受託本案的這個派訊公司利用經濟部所謂的自主調查提前獲得土壤污染的位置資訊所以在二階環評正式期中產案之前的一個月他們開了一個會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1517.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1524.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我的這個頭影片上左邊是這個會議的這個封面右邊的數字他在12月二接環民正式採樣的時候在11月的時候他們因為偷做了偷做了所謂的調查11月太新工程在這個工作會議上明確告訴台電你看我框起來那個東西因為已經知道污染點的位置正式調查時可以移點避開再來做採樣檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1544.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1553.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我事先調查事先去做了所謂自主性調查他採了59個點位他知道哪些污染然後他竟然在會議上當然是揭秘者給我的資料說我們已經在哪些污染點請你正式採樣的時候要避開 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1563.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1574.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
台電根本就在內部調查手段來規避環評的評語好 下一個就是2019年台電跟蔡英文委託他們去做調查你看到他做了59個點位那他這個時間剛剛我請你們記得2019年的12月是正式的要去採樣環評會採樣但是他這個檢查是9月就去偷做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1587.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1603.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
然後11月他們內部會議就說我告訴你哪裡有汙染了你要避開你不能去碰這些正式採樣的時候要避開揭秘者爆料而且好 院長我今天告訴你這個數字我想要請你接受我這個建議你要不要啟動行政調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1606.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1627.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我提出這樣資料你要不要啟動行政調查我們給了這樣的事證我們都有這個都是來自內部的接避者資料第二個這個行政調查要多久完成我要知道進度第三個在這個行政調查真相出來之前也許要請當地的基隆市再次做一次確認那是不是把2月26號強行擬壓過的這個世界環評暫時撤回來我請院長回答兩個部長就聽就好了我很重視委員剛提的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1636.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1643.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
但是對內容我請經濟部先請台電做說明說明之後我們再來決定資料是正確與否台電的說明是否有理如果當中有出現問題我們就順序來進行這個內部調查 彭副長我想問你我有函文給貴部那你在這之前你是不是已經收到這個突然有污染的訊息我的證據在這裡這份報告我們沒有你沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1664.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1674.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
對 報告委現在我們大院在今年1月公告了公監獄者的保護法你沒有沒關係那天我們提出來了我們三位立委都在現場我們提出來為什麼環評會17比0碾壓性通過我們提出這個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1681.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1696.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我們要求程序問題因為我們有發現新的市政其實市政早就存在是發現新的市政我還談文給環境部結果環民會根本不理我們反而派來台電火速張安會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1697.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1717.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
而且他讀到第六章的核心資料污染資料沒有上網違反規定而且本來要七天前就要上網那我要告訴院長我手邊都有資料包括剛剛那個內部會議我要告訴院長就是說那天的會議用17比0因為你缺席了我在場讓我先講院長那天會議是用17比0碾壓是通過你聽起來覺得這個比較像金正恩習近平的會議吧那個整個碾壓通過然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1727.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1744.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我要告訴你院長在這個正式的環評會議之前有一個專案小組會議專案小組會議可是兩岸併成喔通過跟不通過是兩岸併成喔兩岸併成是什麼意思表示5比5嘛正反雙方都很靠近嘛但是前面是5比5後來是17比0 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1747.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1774.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
這是護航到底啊就是怎麼樣都有通過啊因為出省會議是有民間的代表他不願意讓我們有進行閉門會議如果閉門會議討論完全是有在討論的過程當中完全不是碾壓第二個呢委員如果你對於這個有興趣我們大院也通過公益接避者保護法你送給我我們就來照程序來處理其實我們早就含送給你了當天我們山友立委在現場我們要求程序的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1775.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1797.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
結果被阻止說我們沒有資格談程序發言塗污跟污水跟我們環評這是兩個不一樣的法規程序像南部五清他過去也是重度污染區經過整治現在台積電也在裡面蓋牆不過來不及了我請你看看你當天你不在你的部署是怎麼對待這些與會者這個團體 放一頭影片香港環保司司長足而行政不中立 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
1814.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
1829.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
市長他安撫支持方,他對我們不禮貌,他說我們沒有自負責任市長他對我們不禮貌,他說我們沒有自負責任市長他對我們不禮貌,他說我們沒有自負責任市長他對我們不禮貌,他說我們沒有自負責任市長他對我們不禮貌,他說我們沒有自負責任市長他對我們不禮貌,他說我們沒有自負責任市長他對我們不禮貌,他說我們沒有自負責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
1854.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
1858.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
好謝謝謝謝陳昭志委員的資訊謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢 |