| IVOD_ID |
159168 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159168 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-13T12:55:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-13T13:04:30+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b972b8f6f00770facd0e799c00284ed0aae3c1a04a00b1b75917ee1f59655e54081f7d117a098d95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:55:20 - 13:04:30 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長就「有關全國急重症醫療量能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【如遇加開院會本次會議取消，不再另行通知】） |
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現在我們說醫護血汗這一個崩潰兩個字來形容那這個崩潰 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.246 |
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也已經很久到底我們改善的口號還要很多久我們看到現在目前為止醫護現場的崩潰無論是急診室的庸塞重症病患難以排入ICU尤其我們還看到我們的醫護人員真的太辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.63 |
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76.674 |
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他必須要上了十幾個小時急診一個人要顧十幾個人救護車送病患來 甚至全部滿床重症者沒有床不能那怎麼辦 救護車的床啊下來做暫時床做暫時床在這樣的情況之下 我只能夠用血汗崩潰來形容 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.496 |
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我要請教因為你也是來自醫界你也當過民意代表真正的原因是什麼會導致現在的現狀真正的原因是什麼請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.919 |
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104.971 |
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這個有分長期跟短期啦那短期這次發生的比較嚴重我們不可諱言就是護理人力方面需要加強護理缺人力不足醫療體系缺人在近期當然是比較明顯那長期來講就是我們在推分級 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.134 |
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134.911 |
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醫療這個部分也沒有落實那民眾還是相信大醫院其實有些病其實是可以找他社區的一個診所醫師部長你剛剛所說的原因主要你講出三點第一個也就是整個醫療體系缺人 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
146.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
接下來缺衣物接下來護理人員不足那這個原因這麼危急他面臨到下一個環節問題是什麼請問下一個環節問題是什麼導致這樣的原因條件下一個環節是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
157.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
159.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
下一個環節就是醫院要關病房急診待診停治的時間會越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
178.186 |
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201.094 |
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對不對再來就是門診床位調度會失衡是不是所以它是連環問題一直產生你是醫界出身你告訴我是這不是一朝一夕耶也不是現在才發生因為在疫情之後我們已經提出出現了護病比是1比10 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
202.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
221.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
是不是所以你們在評鑑裡頭你提出的1比6 1比7 1比9作為評鑑的原因之內所以因此我要跟你討論1比12的地區醫院也因為如此你剛剛講到一個關鍵醫務人員不夠所以只好關病房對不對所以這樣的情況我們要怎麼解決我回顧在2003年的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
232.594 |
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251.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們為了也就是病房費在我們健保體系我們把它拉出來護理人員單獨體系對不對護理會拉出來目的要做什麼我們希望護理人員很辛苦他可以願意要留下來而且我們專款專用第一梯是20億 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
256.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
278.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
就如此解決了當時稍微的緊張可以緩和一點但是到目前為止我們要怎麼辦我們要怎麼辦離職潮這麼多衍生的問題因為人力不足導致醫院的方式關病房也好再急診請大家不要再到急診了媒體這麼罷你看到吧那你要怎麼解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
284.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
310.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你今天是部長當然必須要到急診還是到急診那如果說一些未婚化的症狀那我們希望說能夠有分流的機制那這樣能舒緩急診的壓力這個部分當然從預防性的措施我們要做那至於說人力方面我們不停的在努力提高醫護同仁的待遇還有改善公司醫護同仁的待遇我們問兩種總統說 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
314.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
335.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
總統說我們的這個三班互併筆要入法什麼時候要入法已經過了一年了他說兩年或者在任內你是他的部長你會完成他的承諾嗎我一定會完成他的承諾你會完成他的承諾也就是說我們的三班互併筆一定會入法你現在進程怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
339.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
348.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
跟委員報告進程如何你們現在討論到哪裡其實這個有很多政策請針對議題提問因為你已經說你會完成總統的政治承諾那請問但是因為要達到的時候也是要努力嘛所以我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
356.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你現在進度怎麼樣?沒關係本期只要了解進度我們首相的努力之下我們從去年的3月醫學中心36%達到三班護病比 三班喔都達到的36%現在已經59了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
371.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
377.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以你現在不是在入法嘛你現在只是自助嘛現在是獎勵的情況之下那區議院已經到達50%那地區議院已經到達94%我相信獎勵的如果落實對於護病比應該是會達到更好的目標獎勵的經費在你編列在今年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
395.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
是你編的嘛大家全力支持嘛對不對感謝感謝感謝齁還好你說一句感謝不能再造謠一定要好好講好好地支持我們的醫護所以本期在這裡討論因為會計速度還沒有完成所以我們現在對不起還沒一頁還沒辦法發啦等整個預算確認以後我們就趕快來發從一頁就要趕快來發這個項目是79.87億嘛對不對大家全力地在支持啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
425.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
443.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以接下來本席要請問您剛才承諾的你會完成總統他所說的互併三班這個字的路法對不對三班互併筆你會完成他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
445.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
470.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
全力以赴完成任務全力以赴完成任務好請你繼續加油接下來我要請問面對到這樣的問題你要怎麼做本席具體給你建議在短期之內你必須要增加因為民眾需求你剛才說的醫院在喊不要到急診來了我們已經超額很多好幾倍了你說該去還是要去不是你一句該去還是要去你要解決他們的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
472.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
498.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以急診住院的配床是不是應該要增加第二個 用設施所需的醫護人力是不是要增加第三個 要建立ICU的調配制度在短期內是不是應該這三項要好好的趕快去協助他們有 這個都在努力都在努力 方案請給本席好 沒問題接下來中長期 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
499.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
525.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
護理人員我說我從2003年就開始護理人員的待遇跟工作狀態都應該列為你重要的改革政策真正的來場支持我們的醫護包括我們的護理會你的預算這個向下要怎麼樣專款專用不能再挪用對不對是不是該給護理的我們一定要求醫院要公開透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
526.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
547.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
不能扣東扣西公開透明不能扣東扣西立法院大家全力的支持你這79億多將近80億我希望你好好善用真正讓我們的護理人員醫護可以好好放心的來照顧這是我們非常希望要努力的目標請你把方案給本席謝謝好 感謝委員謝謝楊委員 謝謝部長 |
| gazette.lineno |
1095 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：（12時55分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
邱部長泰源：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。現在我們說醫護血汗，只能用「崩潰」兩個字來形容，這個崩潰也已經很久了，到底我們改善的口號還要喊多久？到目前為止，我們看醫護現場的崩潰，急診室壅塞，重症病患難以排入ICU，尤其我們的醫護人員真的太辛苦了，必須要上十幾個小時的班，急診一個人要顧十幾個人，甚至全部滿床，救護車送病患來，重症者不能沒有床，怎麼辦？救護車的床拿下來當暫時床，在這樣的情況之下，我只能用「血汗」、「崩潰」來形容。部長來自醫界，也當過民意代表，會導致現在的狀況，真正的原因是什麼？請說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
邱部長泰源：這個有分長期跟短期，在短期部分，這次發生的情況比較嚴重，不可諱言，就是護理人力各方面需要加強…… |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：護理缺，人力不足，醫療體系缺人、缺醫護。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
邱部長泰源：這部分在近期當然是比較明顯，長期來講，就是我們推的分級醫療沒有落實，民眾還是相信大醫院，其實有些病是可以找社區的診所、醫師。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你剛剛所說的原因，主要講出三點，第一，整個醫療體系缺人，缺醫護，護理人員不足，這個原因這麼危急，面臨到的下一個環節問題是什麼？請問，下一個環節問題是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
邱部長泰源：你說護理人員…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：這樣的原因、條件，導致下一個環節是什麼？下一個環節是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
邱部長泰源：我們也一直用各種方式去改善，包括護理人力十二項策略，如果能夠落實，相信…… |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：下一個環節就是醫院要關病房！ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
邱部長泰源：對啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：急診待床停滯的時間會越長，對不對？再來就是門診床位調度失衡，是不是？所以它是連環問題一直產生。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
邱部長泰源：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你是醫界出身，你告訴我「是」，這不是一朝一夕，也不是現在才發生，疫情之後，我們已經提出出現的護病比是1比10，是不是？所以你們在評鑑中提出1比6、1比7、1比9作為評鑑的因素之一，因此我要跟你討論1比12的地區醫院，也因為如此，你剛剛講到一個關鍵，醫護人員不夠，只好關病房，對不對？這樣的情況，我們要怎麼解決？回顧2003年時，為了健保體系裡的病房費，我們把它拉出來，護理人員是單獨體系，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
邱部長泰源：護理費、護理費。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：護理費拉出來，目的要做什麼？我們希望辛苦的護理人員願意留下來，而且是專款專用，第一梯是20億，如此就稍微解決了當時的緊張情況，緩和一點，但是到目前為止，我們要怎麼辦？離職潮這麼多，因為人力不足，衍生的問題，導致醫院的處理方式，包括關病房也好，或是請大家不要再到急診了，媒體這麼報，你有看到吧？那你要怎麼解決？你今天是部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
邱部長泰源：必須要到急診的，還是到急診，如果是一些未分化的症狀，那我們希望能夠有分流的機制，以紓緩急診的壓力，這個部分，當然從預防性的措施我們要做。至於人力方面，我們不停地在努力提高醫護同仁的待遇，還有改善工作…… |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：醫護同仁的待遇分為兩種，總統說三班護病比要入法，什麼時候要入法？已經過了一年了，他說兩年或者在任內入法，你是他的部長，你會完成他的承諾嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
邱部長泰源：我一定會完成他的承諾。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你會完成他的承諾，也就是說，三班護病比一定會入法，現在進程怎麼樣？進程如何？你們討論到哪裡？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
邱部長泰源：跟委員報告，有很多政策，因為要多方研究…… |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：請針對議題回答，因為你已經說你會完成總統的政治承諾，請問你們現在已經經過一年了…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
邱部長泰源：但是要達到目標也是要努力，所以我們現在…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你現在進度怎麼樣？沒關係，本席只要瞭解進度。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
邱部長泰源：跟委員報告，我們的12項計畫在努力之下，從去年3月醫學中心達到三班護病比的有36%，現在已經達到59%了。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：所以你現在不是在入法嘛，你現在是在制度嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
邱部長泰源：現在只是獎勵，獎勵就…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你要講清楚喔！你剛才是說你會完成喔！現在獎勵…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
邱部長泰源：現在是在獎勵的情況之下，區域醫院已經到達50%，地區醫院已經到達94%，我相信獎勵如果能夠落實，護病比應該是可以達到更好的目標。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：獎勵的經費你編列在今年度，是你編的嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
邱部長泰源：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：大家全力支持嘛，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
邱部長泰源：感謝，感謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：還好你說一句感謝，不能再造謠，一定要好好講，好好地支持我們的醫護，所以本席在這裡討論…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
邱部長泰源：沒有，現在因為整個會計制度還沒有完成，所以對不起，我們現在1月的還沒有辦法發，等整個預算確認以後，我們就趕快來發，從1月就要趕快來發。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：項目是79.87億，對不對？大家全力地在支持啊！所以接下來本席要請問，你剛才承諾，你會完成總統所說的三班護病比的入法，對不對？三班護病比的入法你會完成。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
邱部長泰源：全力以赴，完成任務。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：全力以赴，完成任務，好，請你繼續加油。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
邱部長泰源：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：接下來，我要請問，面對這樣的問題，你要怎麼做？本席具體給你建議，在短期之內，你必須要增加，因為民眾需求，你剛才說的，醫院在喊：「不要到急診來了，我們已經超額很多，好幾倍了。」你說該去還是要去，不是你一句該去還是要去，你要解決他們的問題啊！所以急診住院的配床是不是應該要增加？第二個，壅塞時所需的醫護人力是不是要增加？第三個，是不是應該在短期內建立ICU的調配制度？這三項要好好地趕快去協助他們。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
邱部長泰源：有，這個都在努力。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：都在努力？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
邱部長泰源：有。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：方案請給本席。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
邱部長泰源：好，沒問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：接下來要談中長期的問題，我從2003年就開始說護理人員的問題，護理人員的待遇跟工作狀態都應該列為你重要的改革政策，真正地來支持我們的醫護，包括護理費，你的預算要怎麼樣專款專用？不能再挪用，對不對？是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
邱部長泰源：是。該給護理人員的，我們一定要求醫院要公開透明，不能扣東扣西，要完全…… |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：公開透明，不能扣東扣西。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
邱部長泰源：對，要完全給。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：立法院大家全力地支持你這七十九億多的預算，將近80億，我希望你好好善用，真正讓我們的醫護可以好好放心地來照顧病患。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
邱部長泰源：一定這也是我們非常希望要努力的目標。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：請你把方案給本席，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
邱部長泰源：好，感謝委員，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
主席：謝謝楊委員，謝謝部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][1] |
繼續我們請陳瑩委員質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][2] |
我們全部答詢完再休息。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
314 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-3-26-2 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
林淑芬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
楊曜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
王義川 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
227 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-03-13 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1142701 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1142701_00006 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請衛生福利部部長就「有關全國急重症醫療量能」進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1142701_00005 |