| IVOD_ID |
15914 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15914 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2024051403 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-15T12:44:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-15T13:04:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:19:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db43dc8870a7b167e27f712e23582779963be8d109af184be41b8a1fa26d1886e55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-15T12:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：【協商主題一】(一)國民黨黨團擬具「電業法第四十九條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員鄭天財SraKacaw等17人擬具「電業法第四十九條條文修正草案」案。【協商主題二】(一)行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」、委員柯志恩等17人、委員賴士葆等19人、委員楊瓊瓔等16人、國民黨黨團、委員郭國文等19人分別擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」、委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例增訂第三十六條之四條文草案」、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員邱議瑩等29人分別擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」、委員張智倫等19人、委員王世堅等16人分別擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員鄭天財SraKacaw等17人擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:44:20 - 13:04:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
245.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
249.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好嘞。那個來協商的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
395.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
415.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我們開始協商。我們第一個協商就是電業法第四十九條條文修正草案。我們現在協商電業法第四十九條條文修正草案,一共有國民黨黨團提案和鄭天財委員提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
416.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
441.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
國民黨黨提案是在113年5月3號立法院第十一屆第一會期第十二次院會決定至經濟委員會初初進覆二讀由國民黨團負責召集協商今天的會議就是如此另外有鄭天財委員提案於113年5月10日立法院第十一屆第一會期第十三次院會決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
442.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
461.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
競赴二讀與相關提案並案協商。今天會議將兩個版本我們來做並案進行協商。協商會議之前我們先介紹今天的議會機關代表跟委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
473.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
491.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
好來那我們現在呢介紹我們出席的官員有我們經濟部政務次長曾文森次長有我們的能源署副署長吳志偉副署長有我們台電的王總經理王總經理謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
504.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
510.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好,那我們現場有洪森漢委員,謝謝。好,我們現在進行協商。你要先講嗎?好來,我們請洪森漢委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
519.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
543.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
謝謝主席那我當然知道說經紀委員會今天大概有一些討論那但是這個在黨團協商或者今天協商裡面還是要來這邊表達一些看法那我想大家都知道其實這個電價的調整的機制過去其實在電業法裡面我們其實是有規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
544.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
563.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那我們當然知道現在國民黨團或者是鄭天財委員的這個修改要把這個審議會裡面的決議送交立法院來實施事實上如果是這個做法的話其實等於是立法院在決定電價或者是立法院來審議電價吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
566.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
583.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這件事情就目前來看的話坦白說引起各界都蠻多的憂慮所以我們看到不只產業界像是商總的許書伯理事長甚至來自學界那也包括來自很多民間團體環保團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
585.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
610.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
其實對於這個做法的修改都直接的表達連署的反對我們很少看到有哪一個議案產業界跟環保團體會是同樣的看法的但這次在電業法第四十九條的修正裡面看到這件事情那我還是要表達說這個做法確實會讓我們為了電價的審議機制只會更加的政治化或者是更多的政治介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
611.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
611.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
閱讀〈電價審議機制〉 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
633.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
650.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
目前確實受到產業界、學界包括很多NGO環保團體公民團體的反對是不是真的要讓他繼續走下去那我覺得國民黨真的是要想國民黨團或者是真的是大家是要想一下也包括未來坦白說國民黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
651.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
666.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
任何的政黨都有可能會執政。自己在執政的時候面對這樣其實已經變成是行政權的剝奪的狀況。其實這真的是一個好的提案嗎?這當然有沒有影響到各種權力分立的原則。我是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
667.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
684.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
大家真的要再想一想尤其是如果從一個責任政治的角度來說的話如果立法院用立法院自己的權限來不讓行政部門或者是不讓公營事業來這樣或者是來調整電價的時候如果造成的虧損是立法院要負責嗎還是哪一個黨團要負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
685.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
703.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這是從責任政治的角度大家都很明顯可以看出這真的不是很妥適我最後講一個點我們當然最後我去查了其實國際上面每個國家很多國家每個國家都要用電但到底哪一個國家的電價是由立法院來決定的現在只有看到一個國家叫做奈及利亞 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
704.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
728.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
全世界只有奈及利亞的電價是由國會來決定有立法院來決定那所以如果這是一個好的做法的話為什麼其他國家不採行我覺得這一面種種的問題不管怎樣我知道等一下還可能主席還是會做一個才是今天怎麼來處理這個議案可是還是要把話先說在這個地方那我們很希望這個議題其實520後可以再討論大家520可以再討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
731.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
759.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那也許國民黨會有國民黨的堅持不過沒關係但是希望之後再討論我們可以把這個事情先pending因為這個事情真的是知識體大影響到未來我們不只是國民企業包括是我們經濟體制裡面這個權力分立的問題這影響的問題是很深遠的所以是請這個主席或者是請現在提案的委員們真的要對這個議題再三思當然怎麼處理當然尊重主席可是還是要把意見先說在這個地方謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
760.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
766.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好謝謝我們謝謝洪聖誕委員的這個發表那行政部門有沒有謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
771.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
800.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那個我想說已經跟主席報告我上次協商也有提到就是說我們現在的電價機制就是依照大院的決議在做的那電業法修正之後我們也把這個電價的審議機制都依照這樣子的辦法來做那當然現在如果立法院要通過這樣子的法令接下來在執行上面我們就是除了電價委員會要審查也要再送立法院審查那還有預算審查等等相關的工作那這個重複的審查是不是必要就再請大院斟酌謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
803.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
819.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
因為民怨真的很士氣 所以我們要好好去討論這個問題 那個鄭天財委員最後一個發言 謝謝之所以要修這個電業法 是因為過去的八年 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
823.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
843.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
經濟部中央主管機關所辦理的電價審議會沒有按照標準作業程序也沒有按照機制來去處理為什麼呢這一次電價要調漲你們的理由都是惡無戰爭什麼什麼什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
844.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
853.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那可不是今年發生的,那是好幾年前就開始了,那為什麼去年沒有呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
855.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
879.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
為什麽去年沒有?就是有政治考量太有政治考量這是第一個所以還是要回歸到民意第二個因為我們的台電是國營事業它造成了很多的這些虧損也是因為相關的政策政策的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
880.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
898.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
委員賴花後來用什麼呢?那就是用國庫啊。國庫去撥補。那就是人民的納稅錢去撥補。所以到底要用什麼樣的方式?所以還是要回到民意。民意機關。所以這個部分是確實是需要去修正。還是要回到民意機關。以上。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
900.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
902.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
925.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
930.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第二案是中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案。那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
933.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
955.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
本案經過我們經濟委員會在113年5月2日舉行第十一屆第一會期第十次全體委員會進行審查,由本席擔任召委。當時的版本有行政院的版本、委員的提案以及修正動議,總共有十三個版本。那麼我們委員會審查的結論是保留條文兩條,其中是第36條之二、36條之四, |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
963.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
978.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
保留條文需交黨團協商。其餘的條文我們均照行政院提案通過。另外我們有鄭天財委員提案在113年5月10日立法院第十一屆第一會期第十三次院會決定淨富二讀與相關提案並案協商。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
983.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
990.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
егодня會議將由鄭委員提案並案協商。國民黨團剛剛也有提修正動議,我們也一併並案來討論。所以現在我們先來介紹今天與會的委員有鄭天財委員以及機關單位。機關單位我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
1006.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
1020.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
經濟部次長陳正琦還有法制羅司長以及中小及新創企業署署長何書長還有國防會副主委高副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
1022.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
1022.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
財政部理事長財政部副稅署宋署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
1040.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
1058.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
勞動部勞動力發展署的中副署長、還有身心障礙及特定對象的何副組長以及訓練發展組的游副組長以及就業服務組專門委員林專門委員法務部林參事 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
1064.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
1082.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
另外我們還有主計總署現在主計總署由李專盲委員代表出席好那現在呢我們針對中小企業保留的兩條行政部門還有說明嗎?已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
1087.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
1110.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你們希望是這個好那各位同仁我們鄭天財委員你的案子也並案討論那因為現場的我們其他政黨的委員沒有在現場所以我們這個案子呢沒有辦法達成共識所以我們還是本案保留送院會處理本案保留送院會處理好那再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
1116.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
1121.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好,那我們今天協商兩岸軍送用位處理到此結束,謝謝! |