| IVOD_ID |
159071 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159071 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-13T09:56:51+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-13T10:11:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:26 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b972b8f6f00770fdb2fcaa6799ae89d0aae3c1a04a00b1bf83dc853112caf458a4d4e9809745efa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王育敏 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:56:51 - 10:11:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長就「有關全國急重症醫療量能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【如遇加開院會本次會議取消，不再另行通知】） |
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好 謝謝主席 我們有請部長委員好部長好 最近這個護理師的離職潮在Yahoo的線上民調 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
20.717 |
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有高達七成八的民眾他擔心的是醫療會崩潰部長請問你會不會擔心我們護理師一再的出走我們的醫療體系會崩潰你擔心嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
35.027 |
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我當然擔心我們從大概20年前日本就寫出一個醫療崩潰的一個書以後我們台灣就一直在檢討我當時當然是擔任台大醫學的老師也是醫師我們當然希望醫療不要崩潰所以我們也跟不管是在民間跟政府其實一直攜手在解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
60.37 |
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86.157 |
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但是現在你看到的客觀的數據我們來看這幾年公司立護理人員的離職率他呈現出來的都是一個上升的情況平均離職率是12.61那這個空缺率因為離職率高空缺率就是當然也是隨著上升但是剛剛你們在回答委員問題的時候好像是說有改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
87.818 |
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92.784 |
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講說今年這個護理人員有新增進來所以這個情況有改善是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
94.622 |
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118.38 |
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包委員那因為有鑒於這樣一個趨勢所以在大概一年多前政府就提出了十二項改善計畫由四個面向包括人才的培育怎麼樣提高薪資等等的當然包括獎勵業但是有沒有成效我要問的是說我跟委員報告去年的就是去年的十二月 |
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118.92 |
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136.051 |
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比前期的時候 護理人員多了大概3800多個其中有1200多個是在醫院裡面所以我們在這樣的一個狂流當中一直在力挽狂瀾我知道 但是我要你 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
136.571 |
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150.271 |
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回復本席就是說那目前的離職率我這邊統計到是112年度嘛那根據你剛剛的說法如果最新的數據你們這個最新的說法你的離職率是多少你的那個空缺率是多少好來市長請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
153.135 |
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175.714 |
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好 這個離子率跟空缺率是我們每年跟醫院做調查的所以今年我們會調查去年的所以現在最新的就是112年的 因為是去年的嘛那我們今年就會啟動調查去年的因為所有離子率跟空缺率是醫院這邊提出的所以你剛剛講那個數據也不能證明你的離子率跟空缺率有改善嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
176.774 |
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190.741 |
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那剛才部長講的意思是這樣就是因為這是疫情後特別在護理人員留任遇到很大的困境那也因為疫情後的這個那走的有多少因為特別是這一波裡面我們總量是增加的每年總量一定會增加但是原來就不夠對原來就不夠那所以不夠現在醫院的狀態就是一個復循環因為人不夠他又會走是對所以這12項進來之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
203.667 |
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229.094 |
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呃在穩定那我們現在就是要穩定為主嗎你現在有穩定嗎 我要問的是你現在現場的情況有穩定嗎因為這一波這個急診篩報之後你們這個很多民眾可能有很多的抱怨你們緊急又再提出一些的對策但是到上個禮拜就是立法院這邊有在工作的同仁他到了那個台大醫院半夜的時候就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
229.854 |
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252.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
就是有朋友不舒服看急診到現場看的狀況是只有兩個護理師但是有40個病患你一般的互併比就是醫學中心大業班的互併比是多少我們現在在的這個在監測的這個指標是這樣護理人員他的移動他要有所謂的直登 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
252.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
271.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以我們在線上是看得到直登的那我們每個月會做一次統計那每個月會跟上個月比也每個月會跟同期的每個月比那剛才我們講說有這個增加的部分是去年的12月跟去年的1月以及今年的2月跟去年的2月這樣來比全國來講如果最新的啦剛才部長是講 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
276.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
297.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
去年的12月跟1月比那我現在再提供一個新的就是說今年的2月跟去年的2月比那總共是3500個人那醫院大概是1400好1400增加這樣但是這樣夠不夠是不夠的因為過去三班戶病比的目的就是要讓醫院增加人那人的目標如果要達到這個三班戶病比是要7500到8000人 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
299.369 |
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304.895 |
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所以差很多所以才要需要12項政策來支持他差很多耶現在距離那個目標還非常的遙遠因為是去年3月開始執行的去年3月所以現在在醫院有增加了大概1400那我們看的指標是這樣一個是人體的增加嘛那第二個就是三班戶並比 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
317.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
322.549 |
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各班的達成的狀況以及整體達成的狀況我就讓你看一個數據一樣是113年你可以看到醫學中心他的那個互併比就是他沒有達到的比例112年是14家佔56結果113年12月又變16家變成59所以如果如司長你說的其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
344.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
359.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
再朝穩住跟改善的話為什麼醫學中心這個數據看起來在大夜班的這個部分是惡化的小夜班也沒有好到哪裡去就是說他未打的比例其實還是一樣是高而我剛剛提供的最新的數據就是上個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
361.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
380.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
有人到這個醫學中心去看到現場他的大夜班的比如果是兩個護士40個病人就是1比20一樣是沒有達標所以我要講的是事實上現場的情況真的是狀況是很不好了我是很擔心喔就是說如果我們這個狀況沒有穩住的話一再的離開出走 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
384.798 |
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410.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
真的台灣我們就是最驕傲的全民健保以後你要去醫院看就像這一次突然湧入大量病人的時候急診病患一多的時候那個現場看起來像個災難片那麼多人都在這個走廊上面但是沒有足夠的醫護沒有辦法就是消化不了沒有護理人員你病床又沒有辦法開這個真的是一個很大的惡性循環所以我覺得這個問題真的是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
412.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
439.906 |
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從根本就是好好的去解決那當然這個牽涉到一個剛剛大家提到的薪資的問題這次你們公布的這個薪資就是也讓這個護理界跳腳就是說怎麼能公布的比他領到的薪水單的還要高那這邊勞動部他之前就有根據職業別他已經統計過了112年護理人員每個月經常性薪資是49202 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
441.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
464.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那為什麼勞動部統計出來的跟你們公布出來的就是有落差啊人家就說你們灌水啊你們為了讓數字好看啊就是大家拼命報就是把所有的其他的一粒口口通通都加起來但那不是經常性薪資啊我們講一個人的薪水應該是以經常性薪資為基準吧你們把很多非經常性的全部通通都要灌進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
465.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
493.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那難怪這個他們跳腳啊因為你非經常性的薪資請問像有一些護理人員他是投這個可能還是是他不見得是有公務人員他可能是勞保對不對請問他會算在他的退休金裡面嗎不會啊有一些薪水是不會算進來那你那些硬要這樣把他灌進來當然他跳腳啊我就問部長你認為護理人員合理的月薪是多少錢你認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
494.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
510.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
未滿一年的護理人員你認為他的那個月薪你認為給多少合理我覺得只要在醫院能夠接能下去的話越高越好講一個最基本的要達到多少嗎是不是你們自己公布的5370我真的對 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
513.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
536.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我這20年來永遠只是想的是醫護醫事人員怎麼一直去提升到底要提升到多少總是有一個平衡點那我就問你勞動部公布的每月經常性薪資49202這個數字你滿意嗎你覺得如果他平均是這樣子領到的是這一個如果以現在護理人員現場的情況護理人員平均每月經常性所值49 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
539.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
554.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
202這是勞動部公布的,你覺得這個數字滿意嗎?要不要再往上加?就有包括夜班會嗎?經常信你滿意嗎?包括哪些?就是說薪資,還有沒有包括獎勵金?有沒有包括連中獎金?有沒有包括連中獎金? |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
559.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
577.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我覺得如果這樣子 因為包括年終獎金 這樣是太低了太低嘛 如果你是可以加薪的 你要幫他加多少薪加一萬塊好不好那應該要問主席吧護理師公會的理事長他已經公開講 他認為再加一萬塊的津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
585.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
597.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個才是他認為比較是合理的因為現在平均下來就是四萬多了他認為再加一萬是合理的這個部分你們沒有去研究過他們的訴求你們應該都清楚啊這個是解決根本的問題但是你們要不要去回應啊就是說如果我們要標榜健康台灣賴總統很喜歡講健康台灣沒有健康的醫護拿來健康台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
608.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
622.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那最根本的問題如果幫他加薪你做不到他還是一再出走啊你的人還是一再流失啊我覺得這個問題才是你們應該是治本要好好去看待的應該好好去研議吧這是他們的訴求提出這麼久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
623.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
643.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
但是你們好像一直都不肯證明這個的確是在他們一兩年前就有一直提出這個數字因為高理事長這個跟我幾乎是情同兄妹所以我們非常的瞭解你現在當部長了你有權利啦那到底用什麼方式來增加譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
644.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
661.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你們有健康台灣委員會嘛時候向的一個策略是不是就能夠整體性來改善好不好那至於要怎麼加薪我覺得待意努力來提高這個是我誠懇的話那怎麼樣來提高你把它列為健康台灣裡面該討論的議題好好討論那的確是 一定是重點那最後我問一個因為你現在人力不足你說你們要讓外籍看護工來擔任中階護佐 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
674.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
696.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這一個政策是要上路了嗎 預備什麼時候上路這個請市長先說明這是一個已經成熟的計畫 還是只是在試試看風向我們有事辦了兩年半的這個叫做醫院的住院整合照護計畫那就有護理師跟一個護佐 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
698.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
704.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
一起成為一個team來提高這個照顧效率是那這個這個戶左目前都是本級的我們九成都本級只有10%是新住民目前大概2000多位是這樣那未來因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
714.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
718.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
不只是這個他也可以減輕民眾的負擔就是住院照顧到卡丘民眾的這個負擔會減一半那同時也是讓整個醫院照顧的效率大大提高那這個大家很希望能夠擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
731.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
754.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
目前因為受限於經費的關係只有5.6億有111家在試辦而已5000多床在試辦那未來大家很希望說能夠擴大到一般的急性病房那就會有人力來源人力來源的這個需求所以我們目前對這個人力不斷在盤點他可能性的來源有哪些那其中有一項是國發會跟勞動部他們有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
761.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
768.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
外籍康復工已經在台灣六年了他本來就在台灣六年了那他有一個流用就是長期流用的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
769.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
776.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
如果雇主推薦他們就可以繼續在台灣來工作所以這個人力也是我們所以你們要往資深的這個外籍看護工來找人嗎但是這個部分會不會衝擊到現在的就是說這一些資深的外籍看護工同時他可能也是很多家裡面他有中症在照顧的這一群人會不會產生這個移轉的效果我覺得這個部分因為時間的關係我希望這一個家庭他已經不需要用了他才推薦他出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
799.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
825.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
對 所以因為現在已經有這個民間團體他們擔心這一點所以我希望你可以跟他們好好的溝通會不會產生這樣一個排擠的效應就是私人雇主協會他們已經有提出來公衛提出來的時候其實我們第一個時間就跟他溝通我希望你們要好好的溝通好不好就是溝通完整之後這樣的政策你們要施行才不會遭受到一些批評或者是造成一些負面的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
826.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
840.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
有關於這個部分我們會溝通,那我再重申一下,另外有在傳說我們會重進外籍人力,這個完全不一樣的事情而且那個沒有要做,這本來就已經在台灣,而且這已經談了一兩年,談了六年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
846.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
864.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
他已經是六年的在台灣移工做六年的資深的移工那真的是希望讓那個住院整合性照護多人力啦那如果說大家擔心會去擠壓擠壓這麼人力這個我們都來溝通對你們一定要好好溝通好不好好謝謝委員的指教好謝謝部長好謝謝王委員 |