| IVOD_ID |
159062 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159062 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-13T09:52:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-13T10:03:55+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b972b8f6f00770f0661ef82218bccc16de99780e8e59786f83dc853112caf45d197f29790cd35605ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:52:28 - 10:03:55 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
【本次會議若因當日加開院會而停開，不再另行通知】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.089 |
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0.289 |
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來請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
39.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
55.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
有關你很關注的台積電去投資Intel甚至是進一步的這個結合現在一方面是因為路透社已經報導了因為川普那邊的壓力非常的大那 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
80.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
公平會這邊的角色非常重要的現在不是只有台灣的龍頭跟美國的龍頭要結合這裡面更重要的是什麼那台積電是賺錢的他們現在是撩錢撩幹的所以才會出現前陣子經濟部長郭志輝失言去講的蒙古政這個事情所以現在公平會的責任就非常非常的重大了這個結合案你剛剛講了幾個重點第一個你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
108.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
一定會審嘛 對不對如果這個事情成真 對不對如果符合結合的定義因為我們不曉得他們合作的模式會怎樣因為如果符合結合的定義符合這個是會審的他依照目前的市佔率跟營業額應該是應該 等一下講一次真的 剛剛什麼在什麼狀況下應該是符合的符合公民交易法的結合定義我們公民交易法第四條有定義什麼叫結合目前看起來 你說目前照這個第十條是符合的嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
108.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
125.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
規模 我不曉得 因為他們的合作模式可能是不見得會構成結合如果不見得會涉及到收購股權或是合資這樣的東西他可能單純 譬如說在美國設立一個百分之百的子公司等等類似這種模式 那有可能不是公平法的結合如果不是我們當然就審不到兩個台灣最強跟美國最強的這個結合看起來就是符合歷史 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
131.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
153.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
目前是這樣,所以第一個你是說要看有沒有...符合如果結合,那營業額市佔據到達門檻,當然他們就要送件進來,我們會選OK,那你現在已經在準備,這是第二個我們有準備的這是第二個,第二個對不對,那第三個我覺得是更重要的不能夠損害到台灣的利益所以剛剛講的,我剛剛為什麼提郭志輝這個,郭志輝、郭部長那個講話當然後來是失言可是他講的也是一部分的事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
154.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
180.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
你說我賺錢賺成這樣啊那你現在一直在賠錢我怎麼可能去呢這個我是覺得公平會一方面是依照你們這個規定來做這個事情之外你要注意到護國神山到底這樣會不會影響到我們台灣的這個經濟發展護國神山我們的一些先進的這個製程會不會被搬走更重要的喔我剛剛講的不只是對方賠錢喔英帝爾現在要我們去投資的是什麼川普要我們去投資什麼代工耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
181.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
190.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
為什麼台積電叫做我們的護國神山全世界最強的這個代工占全世界先進的這個製程九成以上你又要去幫對方一個那麼強的做代工 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
192.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
215.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這對台灣的利益是非常博弈的所以到時候請在這個審查過程裡面也要注意到台灣的利益好不好所以我想在目前的審查的規定底下我們有整體經濟利益的部分我們會充分來考慮相關的一些議題來 另外我再問你一個最近很重要的一個事情你今天的報告第10月提到你們一個很重要的任務公平會就是要穩定物價避免人為的壟斷你們還要經營一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
220.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
244.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
維護一個公平競爭的環境現在我問你國外進口的這個鮮奶前幾天中華民國農農協會他們說出來抗議準備要上街了他們說國外進來的這個鮮奶船運沒有很少搭飛機來的吧對不對都借船來的啊借船要幾天 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
246.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
265.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
大部分都要30天嘛你不管紐西蘭美國進來都30天保存期限60天結果上面標的是什麼都是鮮奶這是不是一個不公平的競爭我們台灣的肉農這麼辛苦然後生產那麼好的這個鮮奶才應該可以標示台灣鮮奶對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
267.414 |
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294.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
結果美國、紐西蘭各國要來他也標了一個叫先來這是一個公平的競爭嗎?報告委員 這個比較是屬於商品標示的問題啦標示 可是標示完之後就是沒有當然如果說這種這不是違反你的所謂的公平競爭嗎?他如果說有這種標示要達到不實誤導消費者當然有可能會有不實廣告等等問題但是如果純粹就標示是不是先來這件事情來講這是商品標示他造成的結果就是一個不公平的競爭嘛這就是屬於你要管的這個範圍之一啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
296.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
320.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們會看具體的事實如果說事實真的有出現誤導消費者我們當然有可能是可以在不實廣告等等剛剛講的是事實嘛除非他搭飛機來搭船就是大部分都要三十天啊對不對三十天怎麼可能還是先來更重要更重要的這當然牽扯到定義行政院二月份已經開了會了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
322.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
325.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
清楚的定義保存14天以內才叫鮮乳 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
328.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
351.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我想我剛剛跟國研報告就是說如果有不實廣告的問題的話我們也許有介入空間那其實我們跟這個相關的出管機關有在做不實廣告的一個分配責任分配像這個食品廣告是由衛福部來主要是是標示的問題嘛可是我剛剛更清楚跟你講這個對我們國內的漏龍就是非常不公平嘛然後講對我們消費者也不公平啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
352.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
366.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我要去買一個鮮奶給我的小孩喝或者我再喝個鮮奶你給我標示是你的鮮奶一般的台灣民眾很多人也不曉得說國外進來的那個進口乳要坐船坐30天啊對不對它就形成第一個不公平的一個競爭的環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.211 |
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388.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
標示不應該這樣標嘛你剛講標示有問題嘛 對不對第二個它形成就是一個不公平甚至是欺騙這個社會大眾嘛肉農 國內的肉農受傷害我們的消費者也受傷害現在更重要 我再跟你講因為台灣的肉農跟消費者抗議之下我們的行政院本來 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
389.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
418.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
在上個月已經清楚定義啦以後保存期限14天內才叫鮮乳嘛要不然你就是長效乳啊以後只有我們台灣的鮮奶可以在14天內的你就蓋一個上面就標示是台灣的鮮乳如果是國外的一百你30天借損的就不能再標示了是不是這樣我想委員關係不公平競爭是一個很廣的概念啦不公平競爭裡面就是我剛剛提到有可能會產生不實廣告那這個在部會的分工裡面衛福部會優先來處理這個食品的不實廣告不只衛福部做嘛我就說這也是屬於你的範圍啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
419.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
443.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
它已經形成了不公平的競爭了嘛,對不對?要不然你那個公平競爭處裁掉囉,要裁掉嗎?剛剛委員報告,不是競爭是有很多類型啦,不公平是一個大的概念對啊,很清楚是一個,你用卡達夫想也知道這是不公平的競爭好,所以你做兩件事情,第一個你們應該去看經過行政院這樣二月份的這個定義之後,是不是很多進口的結算來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
445.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
468.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
還上面就寫鮮乳這個應該就是要處理的啊這是一個啊第二個更重要的你們現在就是要在行政院開會的時候還包括你自己的職權以後這個不公平的這個環境一定要打破嘛這樣才能夠保障我們的消費者喝到真正的鮮奶啊是不是這樣第二個落榮才公平啊好不好我給大家看一下這個多嚴重大家知道嗎我們看我們進口乳的這個成長左下角啊民國97年到現在短短15年97年的時候啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
475.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
494.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
不到六千公噸 大家知道嗎到一百一十二年 千年啊已經多少 十三萬七千多公噸了成長了二十三倍它本來市佔率在我們台灣進口組的這個在我們所有的這個牛奶啊 百分之二現在已經二十二了 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
495.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
516.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那你怎麼可以放任 放任了22%的這個產品本身標示是有問題的 又對我們的消費者造成這個不公平對我們的酪農也造成不公平另外我給大家看一下 你看我要特別請我的助理辦公室去你去這個 看一下 你看紐西蘭鮮乳100%日本進來全部都是寫100% 然後寫一個鮮乳 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
523.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
538.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這是這幾天去拍的啊你二月份行政院已經做了這個決定了捏這是不只違反這個他違反了兩個嘛違反了我們的標示第二個違反了你們公平會應該去查的違反這個公平競爭嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
539.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
558.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我想委員關切這個標示的問題我覺得這個還是主管機關啦衛福部他們要就是他們的執掌範圍之內啦那不公平競爭路動剛剛跟委員報告的他他其實有他的個別要件類型也很多那就假設我剛剛談到不實廣告這一塊齁其實我們在部會之間的分工這個還是由衛福部先來處理啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
559.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
583.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那當然如果說有一些案子是屬於比較灰色地帶的確產生一些對消費者不公平的情況我們就會積極來思考是不是在公平法裡面會有可以來加以處理的一分點所以我今天非常具體的要求來我看一下我要求你們做幾件事情第一個你要確保不同乳品之間的公平競爭環境這是你的業務啊對不對我剛剛講他顯然進口乳跟我們的本土的這個鮮奶競爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
586.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
614.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
環境是不公平的所以你要維持市場儒品的穩定的同時不要因為標示有問題產生的這個不公平的這個競爭你要進一步去保護漏農跟儒廠之間的合理的這個交易把這個秩序要弄清楚好不好這三個都是你的業務範圍當然 主委主委你剛剛一直在推說最上游的就是這個衛福部嘛我剛剛已經跟你講了行政已經做了定義了當然這兩天我知道美國商會現在來抗議了 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
616.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
630.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
可是第一個行政院已經做了14天啊那時候已經做了這個定義你就第一個要貫徹先去查哪些你更進一步去查這幾天你等下下了質詢台你就可以叫你的同仁去看看現在市面上是什麼標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
632.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
652.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
第二我剛剛已經跟你講他量那麼大對我們已經產生衝擊了你要開胃趕快去處理這個問題還有我提的這三點趕快做好不好我會去演繹你大概一外面去做然後大概這個應該不用太久吧這兩個禮拜好不好先去查到底市面上現在標示是怎麼樣子兩個禮拜你們針對這個事情提出一個對策針對標示跟競爭的關係對對對對好不好一個兩個禮拜內給我一個很詳細的這個報告重點重點保障我們本國的肉農 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
660.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
681.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
他們那麼辛辛苦苦 他們不應該受到不公平的待遇第二個 也保護我們的所有的消費者不管台灣人 台灣民眾哪一個人我現在進了超商 到哪一個地方我去買了這個鮮乳喝到的 確定是要鮮奶 好不好不能夠是喝到一個長效的奶你這嘴唇多 嘴唇多 剛來個標示鮮奶 好不好好 好 謝謝 謝謝好 OK 謝謝齊凱委員 |