| IVOD_ID |
159033 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159033 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-12T15:19:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-12T15:34:51+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/068df7098ba6a5ffdaea175462e936dd42177c27e96a00456e1b84427e832226e7f4644ce7aaae0d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林思銘 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:19:08 - 15:34:51 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議（事由：一、「中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案」覆議案（3月11日）。二、「財政收支劃分法」第八條、第十六條之一及第三十條條文覆議案（3月12日）。） |
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好 謝謝副院長我們請行政院卓院長請卓院長答詢林委員好卓院長好院長我首先還是直求對決請問你到底支不支持財政收支劃分法的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
33.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
56.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
修正你支不支持這一次的就是財政收支劃分法要修你贊不贊成我剛說過雖然逐年來我們對地方的挹注比較多但是討論如何讓地方財政能夠更有自主在合理的討論下我們都歡迎我們也都願意積極的參與這樣的討論甚至我們也有一個想法好所以你是這就是你贊成修法嗎你是認為要修的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
75.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
因為各地都有這樣聲音我們不能去背著大家的意志但是一定要合理的去討論所以你認為要合理討論來修法但是截至目前為止行政院的版本到底完成了沒有我們有很多的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
76.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
96.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我已經報告過這個方案在12月24號表決之前我們都希望能夠有機會來這裡透過黨團協商來談但是那個禮拜大院發生了一些比較秩序上的問題所以一直沒有辦法有效的展開各種的協商這也是我覺得非常遺憾的地方院長我們來看一下在本屆第一會期開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
98.823 |
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124.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
在我們財政委員會總共就有我們藍綠白等委員總共提案了26個財政收支劃分法修法的一個版本那麼在討論的過程中我想部長也非常了解大家一直在等待的就是行政院的版本也就是剛才院長講的所謂的行政院的方案那麼最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
125.506 |
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142.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們在財政委員會也從善如流包含本席在內我們連署了一個臨時提案那麼臨時提案的內容就是要求財政部在第二會期開議前提出願板請問為何一直沒有提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
144.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
158.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
財政部一直很努力在就這個法案的內容在做精算但是更重要比較難的工作是跟各地方政府做更好的溝通這個工作一直在進行這不是一朝一夕可以完成的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
179.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
院長當然也給你們很衝突的時間部長您也講一下為什麼一直沒有提出來跟委員報告財政收支劃分法其實除了跟中央跟地方的權責劃分還有地方跟地方之間的一個如何的分配我們一直認為說我們應該要充分的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
179.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
195.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
得到最大的共識所以我們事實上從113年的年初開始請各地方政府對於分配的指標提出意見總共有80幾個指標那財政部一直不斷的跟地方政府在溝通最後也有一個初步的共識在指標的部分我們就把它濃縮了 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
196.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
205.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
只有三個有爭議接下來是有關各個指標的權重要怎麼分配以及指標裡面要不要更細緻的去做調整係數我們認為都應該要詳細的規劃審慎的一個進行所以上次財委會要求我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
213.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
239.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
上個會期能夠提出草案事實上我們在當時也一直很說明說我們認為財化法固然可以修正但是不要倉促的修正我們應該要好好的討論有一個共識過去25年為什麼沒有能夠修法完整就是沒有共識所以我覺得這個部分不需要去這麼倉促那3月6號我們也在開會所以努力是一直在做說明的我也贊同您的說法就是說當然要 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
240.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
267.75 |
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去很仔細的再去做這個相關的一個研究但是我比較好奇的說現在要復翼囉現在在復翼的前夕了馬上就要復翼囉現在院長我剛才聽到您從早上到現在您答覆幾位我們委員的這個諮詢你都一直要求說請求委員支持本次行政院的復翼讓行政院可以提出版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
269.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
但是行政院截至目前為止有提供任何的版本給我們立法委員來做一個相關的一個參考或審議嗎到復議的前夕你有提出版本來嗎時間已經那麼久了我贊成剛才部長你講的喔充分的去讓你們有時間去做跟地方政府來做相關的一個研擬但時間已經那麼久一年多了耶所以政府的誠信在哪裡可以這樣一言再言一拖再拖嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
320.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
委員我必須說我們在總統召開院計協商之前我們跟立法院也有相當的接觸我就不講什麼方式那時候我們提出說在今年那個是去年的事情在今年的六月我們會提出一個版本後來在協商的一兩天當中希望我們在上個會期結束之前提出版本我也答應了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
321.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
345.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我也答應了這個無需求證我也答應了但是12月20號就發生了表決的事情後來就沒辦法進行院長您剛才提到我也有參與所以我也了解您剛才說的所以我現在很遺憾的是說到現在馬上要復議了但是您說您也答應了在年底就要提出版本到現在都沒有看到版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
346.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
371.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這到底行政院是到底是有方案還是沒有方案你到底準備好了沒有如果到那時候所說的在今年的六月或是下半年我們提出一個完整的版本那時間上是更充裕如果在上個會期那提出的版本就是提出一個可以被討論的版本那內容可能還要大大的調整在目前為止我們就希望利用這段時間財政部也在不久前3月6號吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
372.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
393.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
跟地方政府做了幾次的溝通把問題漸漸的收斂下來那目前這個工作還在進行所以現在還在進行所以到現在為止你都沒有版本你的方案還是沒有出來有幾個方案所謂的行政院版本一定要經過院會我們有幾個方案這個方案如果跟地方溝通大家取得共識我們就會循程序成為行政院的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
394.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
422.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
或者再經過立法院的朝野協商讓它成為一個大家的共識所以院長我也贊同你這樣的說法你也希望趕快提出版本嘛對不對所以你認為就是你看一開始也回答我你認為還是要做相關合理的一個修正嘛我們是一致的但是院長我看在去年的10月15號我們看一段影片您答覆在我們本院答覆委員的一個質詢來 放影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
423.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
442.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
沒有版本 現行的版本我一直強調現在是最好的版本我們看不到更好的版本所以院長您當時回答您的服務員 現在的版本就是最好的版本我一直說是執行起來最有把握的版本在今天要復印以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
444.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
459.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
您就跟我們講說您的版本您有在準備一直在找各個部會財政部找各縣市甚至在3月6號您也找各縣市來做相關的一個討論所以截至目前為止都看不到版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
460.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
487.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以您的意見是不是剛才你又打臉你自己了你根本就是認為現行的版本就是最好的版本現行應該只有一個版本啦我是認為它執行起來是最有把握的但是如果要來調整如果經過合理的這個大家的商量溝通我們很多的方式都在裡面院長我最後這個再給你一次機會請你誠實的告訴國人現在到底行政院的版本已經準備好了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
488.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
490.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
沒有的話我們如何跟地方談呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
491.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
520.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以準備好了有方案有方案那為什麼今天沒有辦法提出給我們本院來做一個審議今天不是在協商這個方案我們今天希望透過賦予的方式讓大家回到現狀我們再把我們的版本跟地方再溝通更好之後提出來一個那如果理想就是朝野各黨團能夠形成一個共識那這個就是立法院跟行政院共同的一個版本你已經準備好了你也有版本是 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
521.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
549.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們有方案還不至於成為版本因為最後還要細修但是你要等到復議之後你才提出來依照你剛剛的說法你是這樣子復議之後重新來審視的時候我們就加快把它形成所以院長你這個說法我們就覺得我們對立法委員非常的不尊重既然要提復議你又不願意在復議之前跟我們所有的國會的立法委員復議之後我們當然要做這樣的努力把你的版本提出來讓大家來檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
551.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
572.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
來做充分的跟每位委員做充分的溝通跟協調行政院是這樣子來跟立法院溝通的嗎對你方案那麼多為什麼沒有辦法跟立法委員做充分的溝通到現在我們今天要做成復議的決定了你還不知道行政院的版本是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
573.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
589.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
今天討論是不一樣我們是針對現行修法過得不一樣當然有一個前提啊 院長如果不知道您現在提出來的版本是不是會優於我們現在修法的版本我們如何來決定我要投這個票我們先提出的是目前自在難行之處 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
590.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
619.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們就會針對這些方式來做修正的方式這個很難說服我們我想我要很理性的告訴你我們要的就很明確的告訴你把行政院的版本提出來我們是可以跟你來做溝通的跟委員說明一下在3月6號的會議我們已經把水平分配的相關的指標跟權重還有調整係數非常具體的提出來了這個就是未來水平分配可以依據的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
619.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
641.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
讓大家來討論這個就已經非常具體了那至於其他的譬如說我們也告訴他我們的修法的方向就是擴大中央統籌分配稅款的規模而且要可以提升地方的財政自主這個部分這個就是垂直分配我們也提出來而且會優先彌補地方財政收支一個差短而且保障既有的一個財源 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
642.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
668.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這是非常具體的一個方向的這個幾乎只是說我們把這個方向認定以後接下來只是落入文字這是先把方向確認了以後落入文字其實只是後續的工作所以基本上我們是有方案的有方案但是我還是要回到我剛才一再而三的提醒院長為什麼不請財政部在利用富裕的前夕 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
669.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
696.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
利用我們在整個修會有這麼長的一個時間充分的跟國會來做溝通跟協調來討論然後再決定說我們要怎麼樣我們不管是我們在野黨國民黨也好民眾黨也好我們充分溝通討論大家再來決定說您提出了復議案我們是不是要做相關的一個做出最後同意或者不同意這樣的一個決定所以我要很遺憾的告訴你到目前看不到版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
697.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
707.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我真的很難去投下同意您的複議票我這樣要告訴你好 我們來看一下我關心我自己的新竹縣市我也要告訴院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
708.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
728.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那新竹縣市在這次2025年我看到的一個我們族記書的一個國庫還有我們國庫署的一個統計表新竹縣這次的如果2025可以分配它的統籌分配稅款大概只有69.2億新竹市是83.97億 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
732.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
753.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那這個在我們六都以外十六縣市中新竹縣市的排名新竹縣市排名第九新竹市是排名第五如果我們再加上一般性的補助款新竹縣調到第十一名新竹市調到第十二名反而是更往後 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
754.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
776.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
也就是說新竹縣市長期以來在稅收的上繳金額都是名列前茅但總數以及人均獲得的統籌分配稅款卻一直都是在後段班這對新竹縣市來講根本是非常不平等的待遇那麼在這一次的修法之後統籌分配稅款 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
777.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
801.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
各可以分配到185億以及210億均大幅增加了110億以上我想這個對於我們未來新竹縣市大新竹縣市的交通建設教育建設橋樑建設以及河川治理等各種必要的公共建設我們都有自主裁員可以運用所以院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
802.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
831.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
在這種情況之下您認為本席會支持您的救治嗎每個委員都有選區以自己的選區為重當然我們都理解院長我只是一個比喻而已我想告訴你就是說對於我們各個縣市而言我想其實我們總表其實我們都已經有很多委員在諮詢的時候也有提出來各個縣市都是大幅增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
832.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
857.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以財化法的修正對於落實地方自治它是有很大的一個注意所以在這種情況之下延宕了25年的財化法不修現在終於刪除通過有了一個版本這個版本今天的經濟日報的社論也寫得非常清楚非常的合理當然站在行政院財政部您有您的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
858.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
878.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
但是我們看了整個綜合整個這些各家的媒體的一個報導是認為此次的修正是非常的合理的所以對於這種合理的修法版本行政院到目前您還沒有辦法說服我們說您有更好的版本提出來所以您在復議的前夕告訴我說我要同意你的復議 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
880.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
885.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
院長這對於我們縣市的立法委員真的是投不下這個票啦真的是對我們來講對地方藝術那麼多的財政收入你勸 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
898.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
925.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
合理的弱化整個國家的整體建設跟國防力量就是這樣但是您為什麼不提出版本呢這個就是我最大的疑惑已經那麼久了到復議前夕你再跟我講你方案準備好了這是什麼邏輯啊這個方案我們在12月2號表決之前就是有了你如何說服國會的立法委員啊我真的是很中肯的告訴行政院很多事情真的要提早做溝通啦而不是等到事情燒到火了你才跟我們講我有版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
933.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
938.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好,謝謝林委員,謝謝卓院長下一位請賴瑞榮委員詢問 |