IVOD_ID |
159026 |
IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159026 |
日期 |
2025-03-12 |
會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-2 |
會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議 |
會議資料.屆 |
11 |
會議資料.會期 |
3 |
會議資料.會次 |
2 |
會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議 |
影片種類 |
Clip |
開始時間 |
2025-03-12T10:49:53+08:00 |
結束時間 |
2025-03-12T11:05:22+08:00 |
影片長度 |
00:15:29 |
支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/068df7098ba6a5ffb3ea69135ec282bf42177c27e96a004534bb49d22970db3977988f7de2833a605ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
委員名稱 |
林俊憲 |
委員發言時間 |
10:49:53 - 11:05:22 |
會議時間 |
2025-03-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議(事由:一、「中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案」覆議案(3月11日)。二、「財政收支劃分法」第八條、第十六條之一及第三十條條文覆議案(3月12日)。) |
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好 謝謝主席 本席邀請我們行政院卓院長麻煩再請卓院長議員好院長好 院長在進入我們今天主題財化法之前呢 我想先請教院長 |
transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.594 |
transcript.whisperx[1].end |
38.973 |
transcript.whisperx[1].text |
就是昨天啊移民署撤銷了一位中配網紅的居留權因為這位中配網紅啊經常性的在鼓勵武統 |
transcript.whisperx[2].start |
40.683 |
transcript.whisperx[2].end |
70.082 |
transcript.whisperx[2].text |
所以在經過多次勸阻無效之後啊移民署以他妨害 危害了我們的社會安定影響到國家安全就撤銷了他的居留權這件事情不知道院長的看法是什麼因為這是首例啦這是大概有史以來第一例啦有這樣子的居留權被撤銷是 目前他的處理是撤銷他的居留權同時改以單次入出境的許可 |
transcript.whisperx[3].start |
70.842 |
transcript.whisperx[3].end |
86.474 |
transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那我希望無論是在台灣任何的外國的配偶來到台灣組成一個家庭或是任何一親到台灣來的都要愛台灣這個土地跟人一親要愛他的親配偶要互相能夠遵守其實我們法律是有規範的是啊 |
transcript.whisperx[4].start |
87.236 |
transcript.whisperx[4].end |
113.504 |
transcript.whisperx[4].text |
你如果違反了例如妨礙社會安定影響到國家安全還有我們國家的立場相關的其他法律規定是可以撤銷他的居留權那這一件事怎麼做對 以前是從來不執行的其實我覺得除了有善意的勸阻但也要有依法執行的魄力公權力一定要張揚出來這個在歐美很多國家也這樣子 |
transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.554 |
transcript.whisperx[5].end |
142.526 |
transcript.whisperx[5].text |
有些發表極端言論的例如像伊斯蘭啊 什麼極端言論的也都被歐美政府直接撤銷拘留或直接驅逐出境那台灣過去啦一直都是不敢處理這一塊啦都是忍耐啦 勸阻啦那這一次大概是成為首例 第一例我們依照我們相關法令規定它已經影響到我們社會的安定它已經整天的鼓勵於武統啦 |
transcript.whisperx[6].start |
143.916 |
transcript.whisperx[6].end |
161.129 |
transcript.whisperx[6].text |
散播一些幾乎是要破壞我們台灣主權立場的一些言論直接把它撤銷它的居留權我認為有第一例就有第二例這個相關的法令我們應該要依法執行但是這樣的一個決定 |
transcript.whisperx[7].start |
162.435 |
transcript.whisperx[7].end |
177.956 |
transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我覺得應該是院長你親自決定的吧我們很肯定內政部依照事實認定那請部長來說明一下現在跟未來我們的態度是 謝謝委員的關心我們是根據事實來做認定因為這一位他在抖音上面 |
transcript.whisperx[8].start |
179.042 |
transcript.whisperx[8].end |
205.791 |
transcript.whisperx[8].text |
已經從去年五月到今年的一月都傳了很多影片譬如說他寫台灣永遠是中國的台灣兩岸終將統一也必然統一等等這些我想已經觸犯了台灣是一個主權國家以及觸犯了社會治安跟國家安全的底線那他又在辯論說這是他言論自由我想大家都知道言論自由絕對不是他所說的言論自由可以用武力統一台灣這樣子的字眼 |
transcript.whisperx[9].start |
207.264 |
transcript.whisperx[9].end |
235.338 |
transcript.whisperx[9].text |
好謝謝部長好那部長請回院長我們進入今天的主題就是財務法那昨天跟今天我們連續在這個地方院長也來報告那行政委提出複議關於總預算案和財務法我覺得藍白推這兩個法案同時推出來其實是個大笑話這根本是矛盾的總預算我們通過了那財務法 |
transcript.whisperx[10].start |
236.434 |
transcript.whisperx[10].end |
262.049 |
transcript.whisperx[10].text |
如果按照藍白的裁判法的內容那已經通過了總預算案怎麼辦你給地方的錢在總預算裡面都有了嘛對不對是那你現在又通過一個新的裁判法地方有多出了很多錢那你總預算案已經通過了那現在這個裁判法是什麼時候要開始實施因為他又沒有訂一個實施日期 |
transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.063 |
transcript.whisperx[11].end |
291.386 |
transcript.whisperx[11].text |
他說公佈日就實施但是其中有一個規定就是有一個條款他是說你沒有第十四日期總統公告十天內公告公告後三天內就生效了嘛但當中他還是有一個條條文他是說已經照原來的財務法已經劃定的這個總預算的分配不會受到影響大概是這樣子條文怎麼可能不受影響不過這個就是從去年12月20號通過之後延到現在才送書 |
transcript.whisperx[12].start |
292.154 |
transcript.whisperx[12].end |
311.601 |
transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這是一種經過很精密的算法啦所以當然行政院要提復議啊是他才會給你拿那麼多錢丟到地方去那你怎麼去執行你總預算裡面規定中央該辦的事項我稍微算了一下啦我稍微算了一下我們總預算案有3.1兆啦 |
transcript.whisperx[13].start |
314.005 |
transcript.whisperx[13].end |
342.067 |
transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那原來啊舊版的裁判法我們給地方就大概4700多億這本來就有的啦那你新的裁判法又多拿走了3750億也就是說地方啊總共啊可以拿到8500億左右就是新的裁判法那麼中央剩下多少錢因為你有1.8兆是不能動的法定支出你不能動你大概剩下5000億 |
transcript.whisperx[14].start |
343.646 |
transcript.whisperx[14].end |
369.726 |
transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那這五千億啊 請問啦 國防要多少錢教育預算要多少錢國防教育大概就超過五千億啦那你其他的怎麼執行 對不對現在地方的建設像捷運捷運台北也有啊 桃園 台中 台南租屋補貼怎麼來 育兒津貼怎麼來其他的一些中央開辦或補助的事項你怎麼執行 |
transcript.whisperx[15].start |
372.222 |
transcript.whisperx[15].end |
398.819 |
transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個才化法還執行下去啊那你行政院絕對癱瘓所以我們一定提出複議提複議啦但是南白多數啦大概也複議通過的可能性很低啦所以我也希望行政院對於接下來該採取的步驟我相信院長應該也有所呼喚應該有所計畫了吧我們有最好的準備也有最壞的打算 |
transcript.whisperx[16].start |
401.627 |
transcript.whisperx[16].end |
424.539 |
transcript.whisperx[16].text |
現在可以宣布一下一切就是在合法合憲的範圍當中我們所能用的方式就是只有幾項而已我再來講因為國民黨常常說新的財務法給地方增加了很多的錢讓地方可以做很多的事情這根本是矛盾的因為第一個我用台南做例子 |
transcript.whisperx[17].start |
425.725 |
transcript.whisperx[17].end |
428.828 |
transcript.whisperx[17].text |
台南現在現況啦特別統籌款那13億一般補助款193億統籌分配款322億這個就是現況 |
transcript.whisperx[18].start |
439.977 |
transcript.whisperx[18].end |
467.249 |
transcript.whisperx[18].text |
但是現況之前還有一個計劃型補助也三百多億啦這兩個數字剛好一樣計劃型補助大概三百二十億然後新版的財劃法國民黨說台南多了一百六十三億但你怎麼可能呢你中央的錢哪裡來如果台南多了一百六十三億那中央一定會減少的就是計劃型補助嘛你會變得比較大的啊你錢就這樣而已 |
transcript.whisperx[19].start |
469.653 |
transcript.whisperx[19].end |
477.643 |
transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以我現在很懷疑你新的財化法你以為你從中央搶到多少錢可是中央原本給你的計畫行不住他一定會扣掉嘛這必然的啊 |
transcript.whisperx[20].start |
480.814 |
transcript.whisperx[20].end |
509.324 |
transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那這一點的話就是為什麼以前在修財化法國民黨時候要修兩次2010年跟2012年馬政府時代國民黨在立法院絕對多數國民黨也要修財化法當時修財化法國民黨那時候還是必須把各縣市都找來請各縣市提出他的計畫需求等等開了很多次會兩次嘗試要修財化法馬政府都失敗了因為這個很複雜 |
transcript.whisperx[21].start |
510.894 |
transcript.whisperx[21].end |
536.629 |
transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個一定要經過很多次的大家的協商討論馬政五時代都沒有辦法產生共識了連當時國民黨多數的立法院都不支持馬政五的版本更何況現在隨便立法院搞一搞就丟一個版本出來那你叫行政院怎麼執行我用台南來看台南原本的計畫性補助台南市拿來做什麼地方政府拿來做什麼地方政府都會拿去做長照 |
transcript.whisperx[22].start |
537.942 |
transcript.whisperx[22].end |
565.212 |
transcript.whisperx[22].text |
還有子女的教育補助啦 托育補助啦還有一些像污水下水道啦 育兒津貼以及未來的捷運這台南市既有的計劃型補助大概都拿來做這些事情那你現在新的財化法通過以後就慘了因為表面上好像台南多了一百六十幾億但你這些計劃型補助中央一定會砍掉啦 必然啦 |
transcript.whisperx[23].start |
566.775 |
transcript.whisperx[23].end |
572.558 |
transcript.whisperx[23].text |
甚至你可能全部砍掉啊因為你中央光是國防教育兩筆錢弄完了你都沒錢啊那國家怎麼運轉所以這樣的裁判法啊各地方政府的意見都沒有進來跟委員報告兩件事情你剛說的馬總統時代在2012年地方整體的財政的短處是589億那經過這幾年 |
transcript.whisperx[24].start |
593.656 |
transcript.whisperx[24].end |
612.333 |
transcript.whisperx[24].text |
執政之後這幾年加強對地方的補助地方的財政在112年已經勝於高達648億整個是從負的變正的而且我們今年的總預算包括統籌分配稅款包括補助 一般性補助 計畫性補助給地方的超過一兆以上 |
transcript.whisperx[25].start |
613.532 |
transcript.whisperx[25].end |
640.755 |
transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個是不用修裁判法就已經在做的只是想把它做得更精密但是現在的裁判法如果照現行的施行的話那結果絕對不是這樣子 中央會完全削弱就是我剛算的那個表嘛就既有的中央給地方的補助款大概一年大概就4800億了就將近5000億了好 那你現在國民黨弄的這個新版的裁判法公平嗎 |
transcript.whisperx[26].start |
641.766 |
transcript.whisperx[26].end |
667.996 |
transcript.whisperx[26].text |
台北市很有錢啊以後會更有錢啊台南 台南大概是六都增加比例最低的啦那公平性我們來比較一下啦 院長花蓮啊 富坤崎的花蓮花蓮超24萬人口啦比本席的立委選區的人口數還要少啦但花蓮增加的補助館比台南市還多啦台南市還是直轄市喔台南市有180幾萬 花蓮只有24萬啦彰化 |
transcript.whisperx[27].start |
670.899 |
transcript.whisperx[27].end |
699.088 |
transcript.whisperx[27].text |
台南的人口比彰化多60萬台南的面積是彰化的兩倍那彰化為什麼拿補助館比台南多台南還是直轄市彰化不是那給我一個理由啊你給我一個理由這根本講不出來嘛那公平性你看連江縣連江縣只有一萬三千個人一萬三千人啊他原本一年七億現在變三萬三億啊那為什麼拖出來要做什麼 |
transcript.whisperx[28].start |
700.962 |
transcript.whisperx[28].end |
723.47 |
transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這公平嗎 而且每一個人的補助款比例高達23萬連江縣全國最高 台南26000差了快10倍這就是水平分配上計算的權重比而且權重比 院長講到重點 權重比也不對台南市的南科已經產值高過竹科了 |
transcript.whisperx[29].start |
728.476 |
transcript.whisperx[29].end |
756.786 |
transcript.whisperx[29].text |
但是他計算啦這種經濟產值啊他是用繳稅的注射地啦所以蘭科那麼多大公司啊他全部繳稅都是在台北市嘛所以台北市拿了用這樣用這一點做計算的權值拿的錢就很多啦那但是地方政府咧第一個我們要提供土地勞力還有招商的努力還有各項基礎建設啊這完全不比計算這公平嗎 |
transcript.whisperx[30].start |
758.263 |
transcript.whisperx[30].end |
776.684 |
transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這樣怎麼公平就好像以前常說的你把煙囪都留在南部啊然後呢角色都在台北啊那你現在的財務法又按照這種公式下去計算那城鄉差距一定會越來越嚴重的嘛這是必然的嘛院長要補充嗎 |
transcript.whisperx[31].start |
778.052 |
transcript.whisperx[31].end |
796.453 |
transcript.whisperx[31].text |
是委員說的很適合對於這個水平分配的指標還有權重這是非常重要的應該要非常精細的一個來做設計跟來做處理所以財政部一直在這個部分做努力以及邀請各地方政府還有專家學者來討論所以我們會認為這個部分第一個你要考慮 |
transcript.whisperx[32].start |
797.394 |
transcript.whisperx[32].end |
819.727 |
transcript.whisperx[32].text |
每個地方的自然條件不同工商發展的條件不同而且人口的結構裡面65歲以上跟14歲以下的孩子的這一個需要政府的服務是更多這個都應該做不同的一個分配跟配置所以我們那天3月6號在開會的時候就有非常詳細的一個配置以及調整係數比如說65歲以上的人口跟14歲以下我們一點 |
transcript.whisperx[33].start |
820.307 |
transcript.whisperx[33].end |
840.02 |
transcript.whisperx[33].text |
一個人用1.2人來計算那另外土地面積也會對於農牧用地或是國土保安用地做不同的一個權重的一個調整這個是剛剛就如同委員所說這是非常重要而且還非常精細的來計算而不能只是把人口跟林立事業把它放得那麼大你權值基本上這個要跟各地方政府來談 |
transcript.whisperx[34].start |
841.545 |
transcript.whisperx[34].end |
864.846 |
transcript.whisperx[34].text |
像人口以外比如說你面積還有人口結構還有財政的努力地方政府也要自己做財政努力財政紀律才能對 支出的結構還會不同像本期我不反對財化法修改但不能這樣亂改不能這樣亂修我想地方政府也很清楚你這樣 |
transcript.whisperx[35].start |
867.889 |
transcript.whisperx[35].end |
895.029 |
transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這樣後備台後備國啦通過這個採訪法那地方政府的計劃性補助中央一定拿不出來嘛對不對因為他排擠掉了一定會排擠掉吧怎麼可能原來的補助都不變然後又增加那麼多錢給地方那有可能啊你中央有錢要去哪裡我剛剛已經算給院長你同意了我算成那個數字吧你中央政府大概剩五千億啦你國防要多少錢 |
transcript.whisperx[36].start |
896.141 |
transcript.whisperx[36].end |
922.386 |
transcript.whisperx[36].text |
大概2400億教育大概2600億國防教育就超過5000億了那其他事情怎麼做所以我覺得院長還是要再往下一步計畫做好了呼籲不會過那我們行政院面對這樣的總預算裁判法行政院接下來要採取什麼步驟這個要準備好了我們會全力來 |
transcript.whisperx[37].start |
925.17 |
transcript.whisperx[37].end |
927.378 |
transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好 謝謝林俊憲委員的詢問謝謝卓院長 相關部會所長 |