IVOD_ID |
159019 |
IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159019 |
日期 |
2025-03-11 |
會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-2 |
會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議 |
會議資料.屆 |
11 |
會議資料.會期 |
3 |
會議資料.會次 |
2 |
會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議 |
影片種類 |
Clip |
開始時間 |
2025-03-11T15:03:12+08:00 |
結束時間 |
2025-03-11T15:19:35+08:00 |
影片長度 |
00:16:23 |
支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a37056a99b6ff728a9d3cb296116cc9631125bfab2e25e2581efae1376afe49b34c366ed1daa38bd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
委員發言時間 |
15:03:12 - 15:19:35 |
會議時間 |
2025-03-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議(事由:一、「中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案」覆議案(3月11日)。二、「財政收支劃分法」第八條、第十六條之一及第三十條條文覆議案(3月12日)。) |
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主席在場的行政團隊卓院長還有委員先進有請卓院長及主席長和財政部莊部長麻煩再請卓院長、主席長、財政部長總委員好院長好、主席長、部長好 |
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院長今天我的質詢題目是稅收豐裕就能充實預算服務升級那麼補償台電要改善財務安定民生但是首先我聽了今天上午的詢答請看第一頁我發現有些在野黨的委員提出 |
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按照這樣的數字看起來 |
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凍結數提出最多的,就金額啦凍結數應該是在94年跟95年2005、2006那麼是陳水扁總統任內誰當在野黨?那時候是陳水扁總統執政的事?對,是國民黨在野好,那麼為什麼您說這次是解凍條件最困難的一次呢? |
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因為很多的解凍的條件都必須到院會來經過報告之後才能夠解凍這在過去也是少見本席雖然只有不到十年的委員的經驗我也知道過去是前所未有但是一般民眾不懂他不曉得所謂的委員會解凍院會解凍是什麼所以希望未來行政院能夠多多的來強調讓民眾知道這些被凍的就告訴他結論就等同是被刪了啦院長好不好 |
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是的 我們剛剛早上有說過解凍最後一筆都可能到年底十一月十一月而且早上看到有這樣的一個數字出現 |
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前面一排的早上委員指出的跟暑季數暑季總數所列的數字是明顯有不同的大家計算是不一樣或者是錯誤這也是顯見這次為什麼總議員要提復議就是行政院在做決議的過程不只讓外界莫衷於事連行政院也要掌握立法院的意志好那接下來我問個比較輕鬆的簡單的問題請問院長國家財政和家庭理財有什麼不同 |
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譬如說量出為入跟量入為出請問家庭理財是怎麼樣要不要請我們主席長告訴院長治大國如烹小鮮是來主席長你告訴我們院長量入為出跟量出為入誰是誰的 |
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原則上在家庭是要量入為出啦如果是國家的話有時候要看你的狀況但是我們現在經濟如果經濟景氣好我們原則上現在都是量出為入好 量出為入院長沒錯我們在審查行政院送來的總預算是預計行政院要做哪些事情要花多少錢我們來決定我們要有多少的稅收如果稅收不足還要去舉債是不是這樣子 部長 院長 |
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沒錯,是量出為入好,那我請教一下很簡單的問題小時候啊,不是啊,從以前我們有時候民眾揪團去旅行嘛譬如說要去洗溫泉啊,我出來主揪啊我們大概三十個人成行,一個人收一千塊,多退少補院長,你知道什麼叫多退少補嗎? |
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收多了以後就沒有用那少補呢少補是什麼意思收了錢以後但是支出不夠了大家再補一點點一般我們如果是揪團你會覺得是希望多退還是希望少補 |
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當然是退多一點來啊那也就是說多收一點然後用剩的再還給大家嘛但是你知道一般人被揪是什麼想?主要是多退少不補啊通通揪著人自己負責現在呢我是覺得有這樣的心態喔那麼所以一般來講一般以揪來講會這樣但是我請教一下一般的經驗那麼什麼情況之下揪一團之後人家要揪你馬上要退給我回來就馬上跟你結算是不是兩種情況 |
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一種是團員對這次糾團的服務品質很不滿意啊還有剩 哎呀 這開店喔 幾千塊再開開不完 兩百塊給大家穿這棟香花另外呢 就是怎樣對主糾的人沒有信心下次不參加了 是不是這樣子那請問我們國家的預算可以說今年的預算執行的我不滿意我明年呢 不參加了 可以這樣嗎在省預算的時候通常會設出很多的條件但是如果大家知道我們從概算到預算到各部會一直到行政院最後組總總結 |
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是一段很漫長的時間到最後還要跟總統報告總統還會提出很多的意見這個預算報告之後到院會才會真正的決定所以如果我們用揪團的例子來講如果什麼情況之下團員說多的也不用退什麼情況對一個他覺得揪團的人很好還要再玩對不對那這時候多的部分他有兩種選擇下次少收一點 |
transcript.whisperx[14].start |
335.106 |
transcript.whisperx[14].end |
357.367 |
transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這次收一千 下次收八百就好或者說下次呢 品質提升 下次吃豪華餐 是不是這樣子好 所以同樣的道理 我們再請教一下如果是揪團的人 會造成多退的原因是因為高估了支出 還是低估了收入如果我去揪團 我會覺得跟他收一千塊 後來發現還要退是因為怎樣 高估了支出 還是低估了收入 |
transcript.whisperx[15].start |
358.22 |
transcript.whisperx[15].end |
386.132 |
transcript.whisperx[15].text |
可能對收入來看是支出來看是低估了是可能啊支出大概都會掌握得很緊有經驗的糾團組都不會有可能是什麼反應太熱烈本來要招三百個三十個來了一百個所以實際上很多費用就不用那麼多對不對所以我們來看一下我們過去的稅收哪些被低估政所稅 營所稅 營業稅 政交稅請問莊部長你可以告訴院長我們之前的稅哪些被低估了 |
transcript.whisperx[16].start |
386.852 |
transcript.whisperx[16].end |
403.402 |
transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們的收入哪些被低估了?跟委員報告我們在稅收的估測上的時候因為有時間上你直接告訴我哪幾個螢幕上出現的哪幾個被低估目前看起來第一個中所稅、營所稅、營業稅還有證交稅就是所列的那這些低估的原因我可以告訴大家為什麼會低估? |
transcript.whisperx[17].start |
404.683 |
transcript.whisperx[17].end |
431.101 |
transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第一個就是說在整個經濟裡面的發展因為我們的盈利事業在112年景氣超乎預期的好是不是這樣景氣超乎預期的好對部長練習用簡短的話回答我們是給民眾看的就是景氣超乎預期所以稅收讓我們沒想到收這麼多好那請教一下回憶一下院長您講一下之前我們在COVID-19期間2022年國家稅收比估計的好我們做了什麼事情 |
transcript.whisperx[18].start |
431.821 |
transcript.whisperx[18].end |
461.17 |
transcript.whisperx[18].text |
是不是我們行政院拿了一百億 一千億出來撥補勞健保 有沒有有沒有來平抑電價 有沒有 有嘛有沒有再拿一千億來幫忙付學雜費的學貸來幫忙做TPAS 有沒有 有有沒有拿出一千四百一十七億來做經濟成果共享 每個人發六千塊所以當我們收入超過預期的時候政府會選擇提高我們的施政品質內容 對不對甚至會分享經濟成果給大家 |
transcript.whisperx[19].start |
461.735 |
transcript.whisperx[19].end |
482.082 |
transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好那現在來了那麼像這次我們收入超過預期那有沒有之前是用於疫後的振興但是現在呢我們國家的零售業流通經濟都很景氣您覺得是不是我們要考慮一下編列特別預算來照顧一線的醫護人員如果我們錢有多我們是不是會下來做這個事 |
transcript.whisperx[20].start |
483.337 |
transcript.whisperx[20].end |
508.569 |
transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們的稅計剩餘如果達到一定的數字我們一定要想辦法充實於國家各種的建設跟國家的這個整體的實力那今年我們這樣初估下來大概可用的稅計剩餘會有3000億左右3000億左右所以我希望我希望有一部分來強化國防有一部分來來照顧民生有一個部分 |
transcript.whisperx[21].start |
509.382 |
transcript.whisperx[21].end |
535.068 |
transcript.whisperx[21].text |
來照顧真正社會的弱勢我常常說我會考慮到償債還錢下一頁那個基本該做的事情依法該做的這個都必須先完成好那麼如果我們2024年我們超額的稅收有高達5283億經過精算後我們可以是不是會除了去用償債跟做這些新的計畫之外有沒有可能減稅在今年度明年來減稅 |
transcript.whisperx[22].start |
536.914 |
transcript.whisperx[22].end |
563.965 |
transcript.whisperx[22].text |
減稅它是一個相當精密的作業要減稅到大家都能夠公平性的語錄金簪才有辦法達到真的讓全民共享如果只減到一部分的稅那這個減稅的目的可能我們要重新考量所以你傾向說如果是多收了多我們不退但是呢我們把明年的辦得更好是不是這個意思但是每年我們在報所得稅的時候我們一些免稅額的增加就是降低大家負擔是逐年都在進展的好 |
transcript.whisperx[23].start |
565.109 |
transcript.whisperx[23].end |
592.535 |
transcript.whisperx[23].text |
雙部長聽到了齁 院長說如果我們去年的稅收因為經濟景氣超過預期那明年我們正要跟人民收稅的時候可以考慮一下減輕人民的負擔好不好 可以嗎是的啊 是的好 謝謝來 我再請教院長 兩位請回齁那我接下來請經濟部長一起來齁來 請問 院長你有沒有搭過廉價航空麻煩請經濟部長對不起廉價航空 廉價航空沒有 我沒有搭過 沒有搭過 |
transcript.whisperx[24].start |
593.055 |
transcript.whisperx[24].end |
619.506 |
transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我跟你講我搭過我為了呢要半夜要從越南趕到馬來西亞我不得不選擇那個航班紅眼班機只有聯航聯航的位置幾乎沒辦法傾斜然後沒有公餐而且他也不能幫你拖運行李好那請問你如果你跟家人旅遊你會選擇聯航嗎不會完全排斥看旅途的地點還有時間的短短那你覺得一般人民哪些人會選擇聯航就是 |
transcript.whisperx[25].start |
621.414 |
transcript.whisperx[25].end |
638.883 |
transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第一個可能會節省一下支出年輕 體力好 時間夠的人而且他希望能夠到一個地方馬上就能夠是白天可以下去做他應該有的活動因為搭聯航搞不好團會可以見 是不是這樣但是聯航他其實是挑旅客的 |
transcript.whisperx[26].start |
639.463 |
transcript.whisperx[26].end |
666.72 |
transcript.whisperx[26].text |
他不會勉強你來搭他你覺得你的條件可以搭他搭請問政府服務人民可不可以挑顧客不可以不可以好那我們來問一下來請看下一頁行政院預算倍三台東的鄉親辦護照停辦辦護照是不是政府要提供給人民的服務是的那今天預算倍三台東的鄉親沒辦法享受要坐車來到台北辦你覺得這對偏鄉的人公平嗎因為我們聯合服務中心的費用 |
transcript.whisperx[27].start |
668.197 |
transcript.whisperx[27].end |
684.591 |
transcript.whisperx[27].text |
經費幾乎是全數被刪除好 那麼我們再看下一個癌篩 罕病 被凍結 病友的權益失去了保障您覺得政府有沒有義務要照顧全體的人民包括這些需要癌篩 罕見病的病友要不要提早篩檢會節省 |
transcript.whisperx[28].start |
685.972 |
transcript.whisperx[28].end |
710.451 |
transcript.whisperx[28].text |
建保的支出這個是政府的政策希望能夠照顧到這些國人所以我的意思是說政府的施政不能像聯航一樣有人說這個我沒有情理啊我也不要去飛機上的餐啊很多預算我給你算一算你不用提供給我團費降低就好政府很多的預算支出不是只顧慮到少數不需要的人我們要照顧到更多需要的人您同意嗎 |
transcript.whisperx[29].start |
711.354 |
transcript.whisperx[29].end |
735.262 |
transcript.whisperx[29].text |
是的景氣好 人民的水準也會提高政府的服務量能也會增加跟改善下一頁喔 電價的部分就是每個人都要用到電 是不是那請問一下 部長 你們告訴院長目前經濟部對於穩定民生用電和能夠維持台電營運您做了哪些努力 簡單的說有沒有調整我們要先從這個電的成本 |
transcript.whisperx[30].start |
738.589 |
transcript.whisperx[30].end |
753.2 |
transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個發電成本來降低嘛然後第二個就是維護的成本能夠降低是 那你們是不是差別性的來調整電費大用戶高耗能的我們工業用電優先調家庭的 民生的我們盡量不調是不是這樣的態度 |
transcript.whisperx[31].start |
754.254 |
transcript.whisperx[31].end |
778.898 |
transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個因為院長有指示啦就是說照顧民生這個是第一嘛然後工業用電就是要不比這個其他的競爭的國家不能比他高嘛好謝謝院長的指示在這兩個前提之下我們在努力好院長那現在台電出一個問題啦下一頁2024年累計虧損4200億負債比92%請問部長你曾經是一個成功的企業家意大公司到這種情況是不是快要倒了 |
transcript.whisperx[32].start |
780.799 |
transcript.whisperx[32].end |
800.856 |
transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們一定要優先趕快處理財務的現象所以行政院為了幫助台電永續經營要補助台電一千億的預算現在被立法院刪掉了所以怎麼辦是不是就要被迫調整電費來營運2024年跟2025年我們各編了 |
transcript.whisperx[33].start |
804.113 |
transcript.whisperx[33].end |
822.542 |
transcript.whisperx[33].text |
各邊一千億最佳預算跟這個總要政府總預算但是2024年的最佳預算沒有了沒有了一直沒有談到所以可能配貨要調整電費他就是我們對台電用兩千億要來改善他財政體質的所以可能配貨要調電費嗎那有沒有其他方法我看到一個過去一個例子來下一頁 |
transcript.whisperx[34].start |
823.582 |
transcript.whisperx[34].end |
844.67 |
transcript.whisperx[34].text |
過去呢,離島用電虧損的都是台電吸收,根據離島建設條例第14條離島的發電成本比較高,但是台電按照島內本國的一般的用電收費費率以至於這個虧損,台電自行吸收,但是依法要補償它,是不是這樣子?他現在還在追討啦,他說過去24年多來,大概累積1100億 |
transcript.whisperx[35].start |
847.792 |
transcript.whisperx[35].end |
854.903 |
transcript.whisperx[35].text |
請問院長,部長有沒有報告這個事情,台電打算依法來追討這筆應法應該辦的這個補償,有沒有歷任的政府都希望用台灣本島內經濟力比較 |
transcript.whisperx[36].start |
863.096 |
transcript.whisperx[36].end |
889.104 |
transcript.whisperx[36].text |
優異的能夠去協助離島的居民的生活那過去有沒有補貼台電補償台電 過去都是用補台電來吸收有嗎 沒有 台電來吸收過去都是台電吸收因為水的部分有補償金門跟連江水公司有經濟部有補償它所以水公司有得到台電公司從來沒有好啦 那請問一下台電公司這個依法要補償的他現在說了 往下看 |
transcript.whisperx[37].start |
889.904 |
transcript.whisperx[37].end |
907.251 |
transcript.whisperx[37].text |
他說你依法應撥不會撥補台電有沒有民股啊部長請告訴院長台電有沒有民股啊台電有沒有民股民間持股有嘛是不是台電的民股說我這個公司虧損你政府應該依法補償的你沒有補償那行政院要不要面對有沒有考慮過這個是 |
transcript.whisperx[38].start |
913.326 |
transcript.whisperx[38].end |
931.983 |
transcript.whisperx[38].text |
經濟部跟台電最近幾天提出的一個方式我想他們就是在財政無法健全得到政府撥補的情況底下在野黨說啊台積電有不到兩成不到一成是政府的關股台積電去投資美國他都要追究了如果台電的民股說你依法政府要補償我對離島的這些電費補償那麼最後兩個結論告訴您 |
transcript.whisperx[39].start |
936.767 |
transcript.whisperx[39].end |
944.081 |
transcript.whisperx[39].text |
如果這一檔認為普發現金要訂特別條例是不是同時這個特別條例應該包含了降低稅務跟加強務同不同意 |
transcript.whisperx[40].start |
972.35 |
transcript.whisperx[40].end |
973.911 |
transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好 謝謝鍾嘉賓委的詢問謝謝主委長 相關部會所長的備詢 謝謝 |
transcript.whisperx[41].start |
978.171 |
transcript.whisperx[41].end |
982.047 |
transcript.whisperx[41].text |
接下來本日登記最後一位葛如軍委員 |