| IVOD_ID |
158986 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158986 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第3次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第3次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-04T15:49:27+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-04T16:05:25+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbd912f2957afca85e89ac7063dd15af94dbecbd8929cd067dbebc20cbdc42f1f93a7319753701da5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
莊瑞雄 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:49:27 - 16:05:25 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第3次會議（事由：對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢） |
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麻煩再請卓院長備詢請衛福部邱部長內政部劉思芳劉部長裁縱部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
21.497 |
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委員長好 辛苦我想前這一陣子全台這個醫院的急診跟加護病房這個擁捨讓我們整個行政院還有衛福部每天都在找這個解方但是如果來看全台灣整個醫療的一個資源在我們本島我看比較跟不上我用的是比較跟不上的字眼其實比較匱乏的一個地方在本島裡面應該就是台東 |
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目前全台灣醫療中心23家裡面東部只有一家就是花蓮的慈濟如果區域醫院的話全台87家東半部6家其實宜蘭3家 花蓮2家 台東也只有一家 |
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那本期今天倒不是要來跟院長或者部長來討論東西醫療資源的分配不均或者說醫療中心區醫院的一個數量的問題我是想從更務實的角度來向卓院長請命 |
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也就是說,其實我在很多的台東的民眾啊,來跟我反映啊,其實台東這兩大問題嘛,大家都知道是觀光的問題,就是交通,涉及到交通,還有整個醫療的一個問題啊。那一般常常被提到的就是醫療的一個議題裡面呢,尤其是台東馬街。 |
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| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
133.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
台東馬就是東馬東馬可以說是整個台東醫療的一個大動脈重度的急診跟創傷團隊裡面全台東就只有東馬有其餘的醫院像你說東積、榮總、鼠東或者關山、慈濟這個都是一般的一個急診也就是說一般只要你碰到了稍微複雜或嚴重的一個病患病患幾乎全部都是送到東馬去 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
134.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
156.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那今天要跟院長請命的就是說台東我們政府希望給他提升他的醫療的一個量能加強他的一個強度可是呢這幾家你說政府在那邊重開醫院不可能那你說其他最有能量的在台東裡面最高等級的現在就是東馬 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
157.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
183.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那東馬他自己本身呢他也籌措了快20億他要去做一個擴建可是在台東大家知道因為地形的關係啊還有就是幾乎整個土地啊大部分都是將近98都是這個國有土地那現在問題來了就是說在整個東馬他這一家醫院就台東最依賴的六七成的病患會送到這個地方的他現在40年了他的整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
186.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
205.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
住宿就是醫師或者護理人員住宿這樣的一個環境防災也變成說已經老舊了防震也都已經幾乎以現在的標準來看都不合格了所以他需要宿舍可是有需要宿舍他有錢也沒有用沒有土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
206.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
228.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
醫院它要擴建 也涉及到又沒有土地那所以呢 醫療人員住宿的一個問題甚至於整個醫療硬體的一個設施老舊不足的一個問題那這個都必須要進一步的解決能夠去幫他解決的 我跟你講報告就只有院長你有這個能力就只有我們政府有這個能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
229.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
也就是說我們只要政府我們拿出措施你也不用去出到錢把我們的公有土地在當地的你把它做一個活化我們政府嘴巴講的說要加強台東的醫療的一個量能就可以辦得到那剛好在東馬旁邊三分鐘會走路的我就跟成癮委員然後陪著台東醫院的王院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
258.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
278.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
就跟他們到了這個整個這一塊我們財政部國財安署的一個土地啊這塊紅紅的那些在那邊啊三分鐘就在他旁邊啊那我給院長或者部長你們看個影片這個影片呢以目前就是我們內政部移民署在使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
279.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
282.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我走進去喔,整棟你走進去,你看,走進去是這樣,門的旁邊你看,裡面是這樣,沒在拍嘛你再去看,再寫一下,沒在拍,街邊鏡你看一下,也沒在拍,門打開之後,裡面是放這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
295.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
312.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個不是在講移民署說他沒有去善用因為他沒有用到這個空間我跟劉部長講的就是說我們移民署在國有財產署這一塊土地這麼大的土地裡面他只用到後面的一棟前面三棟就像我現在放的影片出來是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
313.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
332.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那是不是我們營運署沒有用到那麼快那麼大塊的一個土地那這塊土地剛好是我們財政部國財產署所擁有那是不是請院長可以來跨部會做一個協調我相信邱部長你就清楚嘛能夠撐起整個台東的醫療就是一個東馬他不需要你政府給他錢他自己他籌措的資金可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
340.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
354.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他要改善硬體措施 他要去縮小他要去添加牛 他沒有土地我這個 我相信邱部長很清楚嘛就東馬可以撐起這個整個台東的醫療的量能我們政府要怎麼樣去幫助他這個是不是請這個財政部部長您會對國產署這塊土地可以來做一個活化不然剛才我放在那裡 也沒人願意裡面吵吵鬧鬧 我很想去跟他們拚命你知道嗎 想說不好意思 他們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
396.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
拚命也沒有,拚命如果可以的話,我替你們拚命之後整個地方看是要送給東馬,還是要送給周恩這個可以造福整個台東甚至於,我看賴總統最近也在講啊你看整個健康委員會裡面也提到啊整個各地的,尤其是比較偏遠地方的你醫療量能你要怎麼樣去做照顧,這是政府的責任是不是請我們卓院長來做一個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
397.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們先請部長向委員答覆這塊土地目前的屬性如何現在它有沒有使用的計畫那來看看這個屬性有沒有辦法做其他的轉換那什麼樣的使用是最合理的我們跟委員來討論 部長來討論先跟委員說明 就我們了解這個部分因為它是因為是機關用地是機關用地 都市計畫是屬於機關用地 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
420.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
448.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那馬街醫院如果需要使用的話那我覺得我們這個部分可能還要再進一步的協商看看以什麼樣的方式以現行來說國產法可以合法提供給馬街醫院使用的一個方式我們可以進一步再來討論那當然目前來說這個部分我們也希望這閒置的房舍能夠活化運用是最重要的那同時也能夠充實台東地區的醫療資源我跟部長報告都沒有使用計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
451.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
478.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
長久這麼久的時間都沒有使用計畫 閒置在那個地方可惜啦一定會覺得很可惜如果沒有法所禁止甚至我們可以通過許多變更的方式來符合而且現在也沒有影響到這塊土地現在所訂的任何的使用計畫那我也請財政部 國產署跟委員我們跟台東馬街醫院來做一個協調把這個土地的屬性合理的轉換 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
480.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
497.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
跟他訂定一個合理的使用的一個方式好不好謝謝院長那也拜託各部會不要吵知道人家沒有使用計畫你們突然提一個計畫出來那第二個我請劉部長請回我們財政部部長也請回邱部長也請回我請我們交通部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
511.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
527.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
部長,我看台東你應該很清楚,就是觀光也是算你的重大的一個責任,交通跟觀光這個是台東很大的一個議題,還有包括剛剛我提到的醫療的一個問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
530.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
557.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
去年左院長跟部長在地震跟颱風後前到台東我相信兩位都有很深的一個感觸你說北迴鐵路的部分這個0403以後 強震以後你說整個北迴的部分那因為土石流淹沒列車出軌凱米颱風來了以後你又看到它整個土石淹沒以後軌道又被淹沒所以對我們整個東部地區來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
558.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
579.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
其實交通建設它的韌性它強度跟西部來比的話它是有很大的一個距離一個地形的一個關係那可是呢我們在民進黨執政以後我看從蘇院長或你前面的王部長他也一直提到台灣生活一日生活圈裡面就四個九十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
580.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
603.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你從台北到高雄90分鐘你從高雄要到台東也要90分鐘那這一塊我看可能時間還會比較長一點你們計畫都還沒有提那你從台北宜蘭到花蓮又是90分鐘那你花蓮到台東90分鐘四個90分鐘串起來一日生活圈 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
603.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
631.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
可是真正要看的話這個政策其實只有實行的四分之一啦真正完成的只有四分之一啦可是呢台東兼花蓮它基於地形的一個因素它整個仰賴的一個交通裡面啊它不像西部啊有高鐵啊還有比較綿密的公路的一個建設台東就只有一條公路而已嘛一條而已啊再存一個鐵路那可是當 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
632.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
652.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
有重大災害的時候它就產生很大的一個影響可是這次我們看到你們在今年的就是上個月而已2月21號召開的費率的審議委員會裡面通過台鐵票價的調整的方案那這樣的一個方案我看剩下來就是左院長來做一個核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
653.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
670.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
如果說一個票價30年沒漲那你說都不能漲立法院要求都不能漲這也好奇怪我們也不敢做這樣的要求不符合成本嘛我們也知道可是是不是有可能院長我們做一個特殊的考量你想你西部整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
672.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
687.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
軌道的建設 或者公路的建設或者整個交通的一個韌性那跟東部來做比較的話東部呢 我們很明顯的他就是差太多了他就是因為地形的一個因素然後呢 災害 風災哪來差不多都沒有十八到九 都在台東這邊來的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
689.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
712.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那這樣你去做一個調漲,有沒有可能對於花蓮跟台東你說我老後心,剛才林立軍都說花蓮了,我都花蓮台東這回說就說在東部地區,我們去做一個比較特殊的一個考慮不要說全國都去,我也知道票價應該是同樣都是不應該分各縣市可是你如果去考量到 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
713.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
724.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你整個政府的交通建設還有整個國土的一個地形對東部來講的話如果你去把它做差別待遇的處理的話這合理喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
725.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
750.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
院長不曉得你的看法 或者博定你覺得怎麼樣案子我還沒有看到實際上的內容 我知道他送到行政院來那審議委員會在審議的時候有沒有獲得到這個地位上的差別博定我跟他建議 台東到花蓮不要去啊好 報告委員其實目前他們的票價計算的公式其實是以距離每一個人他的距離為主所以確實我們在東部地區沒有做特別的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
751.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
779.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
可是這樣不公平對 但是委員您在建議我們就會跟台鐵來討論例如說假使對於那邊的住民居民時常在搭乘的時候有沒有什麼樣子的會員的方案可以讓他有更多的優惠或者是折扣可以思考用折扣的方式來處理那這個我們跟台鐵來討論平等原則大家都知道國人各縣市一律平等那我當然知道可是你特殊狀況你就做差別待遇才是合理的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
779.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
793.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
政府對東部或者東部特殊的地形或者東部它因為的地形承受到的大自然的一個災害它比其他的縣市它是顯而可見的你去把它做差別大義沒有人敢說這不對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
795.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
818.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以你如果說花蓮台東這個鐵路票價雖然費率審議委員會通過要調漲花蓮台東不漲,我會怕沒辦法,上次在我鐵路上趕走花蓮到台東之間我們有TPAS,所以這個部分是不會影響的如果是花蓮跟台東中間,中間這一段的話但是如果到西部的話我們可以思考住民跟居民有沒有可能用什麼樣的會員折扣的方式我們來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
820.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
843.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
到花蓮跟到台東喔 如果不去調整 另外一個好的因素就是你不用走到川陪陪那個地方 你就知道花蓮跟台東觀光涉及到整個交通成本啊對不對 還有時間的因素啊你那個我剛才跟他說的那個四個九十分鐘的那你如果都不幫我們拍攝了 一段三十分鐘 兩段來回就一個小時耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
843.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
853.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
然後你交通成本在花東的部分你給他做一個差別待遇這是很合理的差別待遇那你又可以吸引更多人可以到花東這個地方啊而且對當地來講的話心理上也是一個彌補啦因為他真的住在那 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
860.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
888.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
以前我在屏東的時候,我們屏東都騎要保水我現在去台東,我覺得台東又越來越水,台北又越來越水我這樣一個委員報告因為這次的調整,雖然我還沒有看到完全的內容我只要TPAS影響是最少的,短程的包括說它花蓮到台東是有那長程的呢,因為它有跟高鐵有一些競合我也希望能夠保持台鐵的競爭力所以它也會靠這樣考量那至於說東部呢,因為它選擇性比較少啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
888.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
900.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
他選擇性比較少所以結論就是不漲是合理的啦院長的意思就是說因為選擇很少所以花東不用漲啦不漲他的院長的意思是這個意思啦院內在審議的時候我們在針對這一點在大家來討論還有另外謝謝院長做花東做這樣特殊的考量啦不要去想好啦想好就給補寡啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
910.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
926.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
另外上次院長去的時候你是講說台東到資本是2027年底通車花蓮到台東雙軌你是2028四月你那個時候講說我看你真的有可能要進度部長你們要盯一下你原來進度到今天是38.4可是實際上只有27.89你們很有 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
939.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
955.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好 谢谢庄瑞雄委员的好 谢谢庄瑞雄委员的咨询谢谢卓院长 各部会首长的备询谢谢报言会我们现在休息我们4点20分继续开会 |