| IVOD_ID |
158902 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158902 |
| 日期 |
2025-01-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-35-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
27 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-01-16T09:29:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-01-16T09:41:07+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:07 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e6909b4ca57c0612710fecbd5812e82c29ae781c7e1649b4da4ce26021248f0d1aa97a5015985c895ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳永康 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:29:00 - 09:41:07 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-01-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局局長、國防部部長、大陸委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、交通部、經濟部、數位發展部、海洋委員會海巡署報告「針對海底電纜係國家對外重要通訊手段，為避免中共利用各種灰色地帶手段測試我國網路及電網韌性情事發生，如何建立有效備援系統以支援軍事作戰並支撐基礎建設防護韌性」，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
2.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
3.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
委員好好 各位好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
5.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
32.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這個剛才提出報告的有關的國安局局長跟國防部長他所論述的重點本席在這邊表達認同但是認同並不代表我們了解今天我們的報告一共有八份報告各個單位都有都是合格言而治講他所認為的重點請問在場的哪一位同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
32.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
60.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
能够把这八份汇集成一张图表显示海揽图在哪里前面刚才罗委员讲的是示意图那么很多该做的事情过去没做经过这件事情发生了以后我们如何精进今天谈的是解套方案是应变方案是备原方案第一个我请教就是14条海揽的细部图请问速发部您知道吗细部图精准位置图我们手上有 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
63.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
91.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們非常清楚因為在速發部的10樓就有這個NCCSC那所有的海欄的狀況都有即時的資訊那這個細部圖也都在即時的資訊裡面那這14條海欄修復簽約是由中華電信簽的不一定那有多少約 幾個合約14條海欄簽約修復合約有幾個修復合約是由各不同的擁有者去處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
110.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那各擁有者的合約你有嗎因為有很多是國際海欖我們不見得會有修復的合約我們會有沒有聯外的合約當然有修復合約啊國際海欖你要看啊你們的合約修完了以後甚至拿到國立大學請有關海研的單位再幫你們再review你知道嗎委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
115.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
135.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那個海嵐如果真的中斷的話也是由電視也來負責維修那他們會聯絡海嵐的船來做維修他聯絡就是要合約啊合約裡面要講什麼時候船會來啊我們在治安維護防護就是在安全防護計畫中有有陳述各電衣業者他們後續的維修的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
158.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
給各位質詢講到一個最重要的關鍵就是這一個會期一年來我一直強調我們的政府包括從國防部到國安會到各部會你要有一個共同圖像共同圖像是一個資料庫但是你要建立一個平台就瞬間的時間產生的狀況大家看到的資訊是相同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
168.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
剛才裡面提到了你有用低軌衛星做這個備援那彎外部衛星總共多少顆啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
171.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
191.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
萬衛星的數目還是接收器的數目?衛星多少顆?衛星大概有650顆,因為它數字是浮動的對,650顆衛星可是12個軌道,那麼每一個軌道有多少顆?通過台灣有24小時有多少顆?每一次通過的時間有多少?然後地面有多少接收站?頻寬有多少?773個 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
193.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
203.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
政府拿掉700个只有73个给民间那做海揽的备员理想很好但是是不够用因为我们现在还在跟其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
204.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
226.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
還在談判嘛所以這裡面的限制因素就是說你的傳播速度這個OneWeb的傳根本影像根本無法分配所以你只是維持手機通訊那中華電信如果微波的中斷現在外島是靠中華電信微波來支持如果海纜中斷那麼這個海纜中斷呢不管是惡意無益或者是意外事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
227.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
234.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你可以要布海欄尤其是在近岸布海欄你可以要求他埋一公尺决深而不是在深海的海欄里面 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
236.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
263.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
報告委員講的都是都是行家的都是行家那事實上包含的我們我們都有要求在大陸棚那中華電信在這邊也應該很清楚就是所有在大陸棚海嵐都是深埋在水底下至少海平面下至少10公尺5公尺以下到20公尺的區間那我曾經接受過許多次的國際媒體的採訪事實上要把 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
264.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
289.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
海嵐割斷需要有三個意外第一個意外就是因為所有的海嵐圖是公開的公開的目的就是為了要防止商船或漁船在海嵐的地方下錨中華電線也有系統就是當你的ACS你的傳輸太慢然後你接近海嵐的時候我們都會示警這些公開的資訊是為了防止意外的產生但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
290.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
305.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以第一個意外就是如果你要割斷海卵你必須在海卵的地方附近下毛下毛以後第二個意外呢你必須開動船隻的引擎因為正常的情況下船隻下毛以後不會開動引擎那你開動引擎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
306.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
324.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那你發現你開動引擎又下錨你又繼續前行這才有可能會把海欖割斷所以你必須要有三個意外那而且海欖的所有的海欖公司在近海處在大陸棚他都會做深埋這都是為了保護海欖的安全那所以我們現在所面對的問題並不是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
327.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
343.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
因為你需要這三個意外這顯然是一個這三個意外實在是太困難了所以這顯然不是一個正常的情況我剛剛提到現在我們在不管是各部會做這種意外事件的當值的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
344.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
368.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你要有一個共同平台共同圖像然後大家都可以用GIS都可以用AIS所以至於這個船根據IMO的規則每條船有七個代碼所以你點進去知道船東船籍掛國旗還是租賃裝貨在哪些貨發行位置全部都有所以你發現一個船持續在那邊做不正當的行為的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
369.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
382.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
已經開始有預印了但是一般的圖來講你並不知道你只是看到海面你沒有看到海參所以說像剛剛您講的不管是衛星 微波 海纜它通訊傳播速度完全不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
384.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
398.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
99.5靠海南其他只是備援幫不了大忙那斷了以後馬上要根據合約外商的傳過來要多久這個時間要國安會要能掌握國防部要能掌握我們再看下一張圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
400.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
417.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個剛才前面的羅委員就顯示了可是這上面沒有水深啊我給各位我經過校證把水深套上去你就發現他這個船為什麼要走呢因為他的毛可能只放了150公尺然後他如果要顯示他是一個故障船他要掛旗 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
419.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
440.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你不管是挂Yankee、Romeo、Delta都代表不同的现况这个是执法可以依据的然后你用无人机或监控系统你看到他的毛在那边这个船呢两节速度在那边乱移动我就上去领检那规定可不可以可以立法规定啊日本已经规定了新加坡韩国也规定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
441.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
461.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以基礎設施的維護是全國的關切絕對不是速發部一個人的掌握但是你的數位的情資有沒有及時分送這個圖像有沒有給國安局跟國防部或者是其他的執法單位我們要有一個通訊平台電子圖台現在海嵐過去跟國際的資料顯示38%是捕魚的魚網的剛才拖的25% |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
469.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
496.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
是下锚的这下锚的有意外事件有刻意破坏另外还包括地震包括东西所以我刚跟你讲只要看到一些船有可疑行动你监控它你看它挂的旗Yankee本舰正在溜锚中Romeo本舰处于静止状态但是它如果挂Romeo而在慢慢移动它在做行为那甚至Delta这个旗子海巡署是看得见的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
497.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
513.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那再去看它毛孔毛链是不是垂直的就表示你做的动作跟你的挂的旗帜是违反海上行为法的这些东西都可以做预备像日本已经监控了海底电缆左右1000公尺禁止采挖 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
514.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
537.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
韓國也訂出規定了新加坡也訂出規定了我認為我們的國安團隊要整合這個要求而不是各部會問就像這樣子各位你們都講得很清楚你都有你的角色很重要但是你缺什麼你缺一個共同圖台你沒有一個平台所以大家講的都很重要我這邊都表達肯定如何交換殉職像這個圖你看我們這個右邊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
541.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
561.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
淡水每一个图是哪一个海岚我们都可以标上去可是这个底图就是刚才罗委员讲的图这叫示意图这个图是不准的这是地震师的图这个图出来了可是这个图又没有海水深度的显示 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
562.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
581.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
它要脫斷都在100公尺以內它怎麼會跑到水深300公尺它下毛 它毛鏈多長不同的船的頓位不同的毛鏈長位下毛通常是一倍一半到兩倍的水深這都是海上的專業知識可是不用情報分享沒有一個完整的圖像 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
582.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
607.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你怎么判断所以之前这个图里面画那个直线的全部是示意图所以罗伟元刚刚讲的图是示意图跟媒体的公布资料那内政部已经把这个图出来了如果交通部或者是中华电信拿到更细的图我们要调效然后再去配合海水的深度你刚刚讲的近线制水域对本岛来讲哪有近线制水域啊就是临海基线24里那 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
609.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
624.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
另外一个我们不谈无害通过因为你完全有权利掌握我是在公海上即便是在通过我的这个所谓的海揽区你在那边做可疑行为我派执法船拦截你 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
625.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
652.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
因為AIS已經告訴你的船籍 船東 租賃公司所掛的國旗 裝貨 卸貨點 發起點你這個行為可疑 我當然可以執法了我可以 我叫Hot Pursuit我從領海一路追到外面 我要領檢那這些東西都是跟國際法 海洋法有關的所以各部會在今天如果還是用你的專業指講你的連一張圖都不拿出來你今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
653.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
673.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們今天這個圖是內政部的圖這個圖跟剛才所看到的所有的示意圖完全不一樣可是內政部這張圖裡面又沒有領海基線也沒有24里那更沒有海底深度所以透過學研單位可以幫各位的需求做整合這個科技部實際上對這個做 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
675.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
692.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
这个很小的一个project我个人已经建立的资料库可以support大家可是我到今天看八份报告里面居然没有一张图没有一张表这个是值得我们共同努力本席在这边提出一个非常强烈的建议然后再谈到跨部会 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
693.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
718.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
涉及到國家安全社會韌性請提出圖表來圖是圖表示表要精確的校正不要示意圖我在這邊向各位請益我提供各位的是專業意見我不用示意圖我不用報紙的截圖請用一個共同平台我再次呼籲跨部會的協商不能各說各話都講得對無法收斂以上謝謝謝謝委員指教謝謝陳永康委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
723.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
723.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
接下來我們請沈伯陽委員上台 |